I figured I’d document this somewhere before I forget the details. And I figure I’d some day want to mention this on the blog for some reason. So I figure I’ll just blog about it, because it was an interesting occurrence.
There’s a cult of Joseph Smith Junior (Mormon) building not very far from where I live. There are buildings for other cults and also church buildings near by, but I’ve been awaiting the day the Mormons here in this town come to my door. And today was the day. (It always seems to happen the day you’re least thinking about it though.) 2 female Mormon missionaries came to my door. I was really thinking 2 men would come, since I’ve usually had to deal with men they send out when living in other places, but I guess these local Mormons figured they’d try sending the women out. So these 2 rather cordial women were on my doorstep. Given 2 John 1:10-11, I never permit Mormon missionaries across my doorstep.
2 John 1:10-11 (New American Standard Bible)
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
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So there I was having to maintain my convictions with two women, when it would have been much easier to do with leaving two men on the doorstep. I know some folks let them inside for the talk, but I don’t. And it’s 50 degrees fahrenheit here today and windy! So this made their mission a little more impossible. Because not only was I unreceptive to their efforts to recruit me into their heretical fold, I had them doing it in the cold. (And hey, if they were near death or hurting I’d help them, but they were in good health and dressed warm, so leaving them on the doorstep didn’t really hurt them any at all.)
So they started talking about how they wanted to tell me about how “Jesus after being in Jerusalem came to America and shared what can be found in the Book of Mormon.” This basically left me with the angle of response regarding how:
- There is no evidence of such in the Bible. To which they responded that John 10:16 is supposedly biblical proof of Jesus coming to America. I informed them, that the other sheep were visited through the advancement of the Gospel to other parts of the world. They were sort of in agreement with that, but still felt Jesus came to America. I told them Jesus coming to America is not in the Bible, but the other details of what they promote invalidate their source. (See the next point below.)
- I informed them how Mormon writings have no foundation in historical fact. How the Bible has been vetted for historical accuracy and come up confirmed regarding Jesus, what He said and where He said it. While the Mormon writings have no historical basis like the Bible and biblical accounts are confirmed even by history and historical research.
- I told them how their talk of Lamanites (I mentioned the Lamanites, they didn’t know I knew about their claims regarding that) has no historical validation and no DNA for people today really confirms their claims. No money for the people they claimed lived in the northern Americas has been found, no weaponry related to the wars they claim occurred has been found. And so I looked at them after presenting evidence and said to them they are believing something that has no scientific validation at all, but the Bible is well verified. One of the ladies seemed a little shaky at this point (looking like she thought perhaps there’s something wrong with Mormonism), but the Mormons usually seem to send 2 people where 1 person is well brainwashed with another who is new to their game. So the well brainwashed one started speaking about how they totally believe all the made up nonsense.
- The well brainwashed one was saying during our discussion how they ask people to pray and come to know the truth. I told them I prayed and found the truth in the Bible. But I found their materials had no foundation in fact at all.
- The well brainwashed one (the other was totally silent once the very brainwashed one jumped in to try and run cover) tried to claim they believe what is in the Bible. I informed them they actually do not, because they’re speaking about things they claim Jesus did, that are not biblical.
- So then the well brainwashed one mentioned that she did not desire a prolonged debate and they were going to leave. I told them in closing, that speaking of a Jesus who they claim did things that He never really did is to actually speak of another Jesus, not the true Jesus of the Bible. That they need to stick to the Bible and dump the other materials. I informed them that their teachings really don’t acknowledge God in truth, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
- They said they would pray for me and asked me to pray for their ongoing missionary efforts. In response to their request I pray for their efforts, I told them NO, I would pray for them, but not for their efforts in regards to what they are trying to tell others that is unbiblical.
- They left and upon closing the door I wished I had been able to get into talk about the cover-up regarding the many, many wives of Joseph Smith Junior, but given things started with talk about a false Jesus who came in His physical body to America, I had to go with talking about that and was on that angle the entire time.
- I guess it would have been good to get into talk about salvation by grace through faith, but I was hoping to have more time before they’d run off.
So basically I found today, given the cold weather, when cultists come to my door, my time to engage them is going to be very limited. They’re not going to want to debate much in adverse weather. (Usually my doorstep talks with Mormons and Jehovah-less Witnesses can be rather lengthy, but those did take place in warmer weather.) Which is a given, but I’ll have to keep it in mind for future encounters, so I know to tell the truth and don’t be long winded about it when the weather is bad.
I just like to document these experiences, in case it somehow helps a fellow saint or even helps a person loss in the cult of Joseph Smith Junior to come to know the truth.
(No comments promoting the cult of Joseph Smith Junior will be posted, 2 John 1:10-11 goes for this blog too.)
October 27th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Man, this was great reading this. I have only had one set of Mormons come to my door and that was about 12 years ago.
I remember it was on once they gave me the party line spill about the bible. Like your two fair weathered missionaries, they hiked on up outta there after I (respectly) gave them a spiritual smack down.
IC, what do you see as the biggest difference between the door to door JWs and the Mormons?
And…I wonder what the silent one was thinking?
IndependentConservative reply on October 27th, 2008 at 6:15 pm :
I think the biggest difference, is that Mormons go extra-biblical from “go”. The JWs try very much more to act like they are coming from the Bible, even acting like they’ve got it all better figured out than everyone else. So with JWs, you’re trying to help them realize Jesus is God and how to actually be sola scriptura. With Mormons, you’re knocking down stuff they’ve made up and trying to help them see there is only One God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One in being, not just One in purpose, although 3 distinct persons (not 3 manifestations as Oneness folks claim). With both you’re also trying to help them see works don’t save, that’s really the one uniting factor with them both and all the cults of the world, they promote works based salvation. If you can get them into a discussion about how to be saved it really gets interesting. The Mormons and JWs will act like they believe faith in Jesus saves, but if you know enough of their teachings you can break down why they teach works based salvation. JWs feel you’ve got to do what they say and be part of their cult, Mormons feel you’ve got to be part of their cult, pay their 10% demand, marry where they say marry and so on and on… And of course they both deny who Jesus really is. JWs don’t acknowledge Him as really God and really One with the Father. Mormons don’t acknowledge Him as really One with the Father and see Jesus as one of many gods. JWs believe in multiple gods too, but in a different manner than Mormons. Yes JWs see Jesus as “a god” rather than God too, but in a different sense in the technical details than Mormons. JWs also feel like SDAs, that Jesus is actually a mere angel, Michael the archangel.
Especially with Mormons these days, they’ll try and act like they’re just another branch of Christianity. Plus they have all their made up degrees of Heaven nonsense, so they’ll tell you you’re going to Heaven, but it’s a level of their fictitious muti-level heaven, with them at the top. And some JWs may claim to be Christian, but they’re a little more open about letting you know they are not found of groups outside of their own.
October 28th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
IC,
Regarding 2 John 1:10-11. I have a difficult situation. My mother-in-law is a Jehovah Witness. I have expressed to my wife this passage, but she thinks it’s extreme. Currently, my mother-in-law has access into my home. What do you think?
IndependentConservative reply on October 28th, 2008 at 2:22 pm :
I think you need to think about whether you’re letting your mother-in-law in to try and advertise JW doctrine to you, or would you be having her over as a relative?
When cult missionaries are on the doorstep trying to get in with the full out intent of trying to get you into their fold, 2 John 1:10-11 is automatic in my opinion.
I do find with family the matter is far more difficult. I don’t think there’s an issue if your mother-in-law does not make visits to your home a time to try and turn you into one of her bunch. Your wife has to respect her mother as such. So it’s only right that she petition to you that her mother be allowed to visit.
I don’t deny my family members who are of all sorts of mess entry into my home. But if they start trying to spread their mess inside my 4 walls, they’ll be seeing the opposite side of the door once I’m done telling them the truth.
At least that’s how I see it, but if anyone else has a thought feel free to speak up.
October 28th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Yes, she knows where we stand and doesn’t even think of mentioning her doctrine to us. I don’t consider her a full out JW anyway because she never misses a holiday. Lol!
IndependentConservative reply on October 28th, 2008 at 5:39 pm :
And your mother in-law really not deep into their stuff, if she’s spending time with any family that left the JWs. (If there are any former JWs in your family she’s spending time with.) The JWs are usually the ones who are known for excommunicating family that leave their group, with no regard for the family relationship. The JW leadership has often threatened to excommunicate JW members who refuse to excommunicate (even socially excommunicate) family that left the group. And you would not want to be a former JW with a boss who is a JW member and finds out you left their group… (I’m not saying you were a JW, just mentioning they can be pretty ugly with someone who leaves them.)
October 29th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
No, I am not a former JW, but most of my mother’s side is and it is sad, because before they all joined we used to be so close. Now, though we come together sometimes, it is that air of phonyness(if that’s a word). For example we has a small reunion about 2 months ago that my mother organized. They showed up 2 hours late and came all in a group. We didn’t start eating because we were waiting on them. I was steaming, but knew I needed to show the fruit of love towards them. It’s sad because they always seem happy to see you, exchange contact info, but then never contact you afterwards. Some live literally within a few miles from me, but never come by. As much as I want to tell them that they are in a cult, I don’t. I have seen too many arguments between my mother and aunt when she questioned their doctrine. As for my mother-in-law, she only acts like a strict JW when her JW friend is around, but no she can’t be serious, because on my side they are serious and don’t come to anything that concerns holidays.
October 29th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
IC - first of all I ‘ve been chuckling to myself for the past few days after reading this post. Jw’s are regular visitors to most neighborhoods - but I haven’t had the “pleasure” to see any of Joe’s people yet. Now at least I know where to begin with them if they do show up…and the pomeranian hasn’t gotten hold of them yet
And I agree with what you told nlspears. We’ve got some friends who aren’t JW’s but they’ve fallen into a pseudo-Christian cult. They were hurt by pimps years ago and completely fell of into “a different gospel”. Now, we’ve talked to these folks about the truth, but they respectfully demure - and they DO NOT push their stuff on us. We are earnestly praying for them, and I agree with your assertion on 2 John 1:10-11 in this instance (although they don’t really come by the house).
nlspears reply on October 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am :
Hey speakingtruth,
Can you provide some examples of their “different gospel”. Just curious.
speakingtruth reply on October 31st, 2008 at 1:26 pm :
hey nlspears - sorry fot the delay in my reply.
These folks have subscribed to some offshoot of metaphysical studies (I think the original found was called McKinley or McKinsey - something like that). They call God Yahweh and say that Jesus’ name couldn’t really be Jesus because there were no “e’s” back then. We haven’t had a substantive conversation about it in years so I forget the details. The “problem” is that these folks are really loving people - far kinder and more giving than most of the other drones I’ve known from my pulpit pimp cult days. I just continue to pray that they would see the Light as the Lord wills, it just makes you scratch your head…
IndependentConservative reply on October 31st, 2008 at 2:04 pm :
ST, perhaps you could find out more about them in order to warn about their doctrine in a future post on your blog sometime?
Regarding names used, some people have a mistaken view, that translation is sinful, but it’s not sinful at all. Which is why the Apostles and those with them in writing NT scripture translated to Greek with no problem at all. They switched to using the widest trade language in the world, to ensure the gospel was spread all over and they used Greek for all terms including Theos / θεός for God. If God had a problem with translation, there never would be a gift of the Spirit called “tongues” and scripture would mandate learning perfect Hebrew and all scripture would have been in Hebrew.
Here are some links to more information that should help in this regard:
What is YHWH? What is the tetragrammaton?
If His name was Yeshua, why do we call Him Jesus? Also regarding that see: Strong’s Lexicon Results for Iēsous, G2424.
What are the different names of God and what do they mean?
speakingtruth reply on October 31st, 2008 at 5:15 pm :
IC - I’m going to investigate their beliefs further and put a post up on it. You’re right - others need to see how offbase it is in regards to the God of the bible and His Son.