Rekjalhew

July 13, 2008

Insane Prosperity Cult Giving Chants!

by @ 1:11 am. Filed under Nuts on Parade

When at various places that promote the false prosperity doctrine, I noticed many places have various unbiblical chants. That they recite in their proclamation that THEY’VE GOT SOME BIG MONEY COMING THEIR WAY. At many places that do this sort of thing, the pulpit pimps usually have it recited by everyone during the time people are about to show how duped they are and give the pimp more of their money. So they can do things like hope God gives them lunch money for the week, while they give 10%+ away to the pimp and mistakenly believe they are fulfilling a “church tithe”. So money can supposedly fall all over them. (Please see: Reconsidering the Tithe.)

I’m just posting a few examples of the insanity here with some analysis.

Here’s the first cult chant devised by a pimp that we’ll review:
New Birth South Metropolitan Church – Andr? Landers Head Pastor Pimp

Straight from their Online Giving web page:

The Givers Confession!

Father, empower me to bless your Kingdom.
I support the vision and the visionary of this house.
I will give you nothing from my pocket that did not come from my heart!
All I have is yours!
I will honor you with the first fruits and I will not withhold the tithes.
The devourer is rebuked off my life.
I am faithful, productive and fruitful.
Therefore, let your blessing rest on my house.
Father, we will build you a house.
Finished, Full and Free!

Amen!

The above is also at recited at Love Sanctuary Community Church – Leo Smith Head Pastor Pimp. See it on their web site here.

Notice, the above chant goes wayward in the 2nd statement “I support the vision and the visionary of this house.” Instead of giving to support the cause of Christ, instead of following Christ and his commandments, they are affirming they support some “vision” and it’s “visionary”. So whatever a man who is claimed to be the “visionary” has made up becomes the thing to follow. Making the ambitions of a man the Word of God, instead of scripture being the Word of God.

Mark 7:8-9 (New American Standard Bible)

8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

If the giving is being done to honor God, how come these pimps put so much of it into their buildings and the givers often KNOW the money is mostly for a building, when Christ said giving to Him is to be done as written in Matthew 25:31-46?

They proclaim “Father, we will build you a house.” While scripture says:

1 Corinthians 6:19 (New American Standard Bible)

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

and

1 Peter 2:5 (New American Standard Bible)

5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

If our bodies are the temple and we are as living stones being built up as a spiritual house to the glory of God through Jesus Christ, why are people giving money with claims of building God a “house”? Many saints have been totally misled, to feel they are in old covenant times paying tithes (and what is being paid today is not even what a tithe really was) and thinking they must build God a grand temple of stone and other earthly materials. Ignoring that the Apostles of the Lord Jesus never told saints to go build grand buildings for God.

Those making the declaration above are being led into man worship and feeling if they can “build God a house”, that somehow it will result in God granting them material things. They don’t realize, that if they believed on the Lord Jesus for forgiveness of sin, that is when “the devourer was rebuked off their life”. You can’t buy the gift of God with money and to attempt such is TOTAL HERESY, Acts 8:20 [click to expand link]!

Here is another prosperity cult chant for review:
Elijah Ministries Inc. Hank Hallas Head Pastor Pimp.
Has a “Tither’s Declaration” on his web site, which reads as follows:

THE TITHER’S DECLARATION
Malachi 3:10-12
Father, I thank You today for the honor of
sowing seed into Your kingdom.
I do so with a willing, generous and joyful heart!
I bring my tithes into Your church,
Knowing all it’s needs will be met.
I am testing You and trusting You,
To open the windows of heaven over my life with?
Jobs and promotions, raises and bonuses,
wonderful benefits, sales and commissions,
financial settlements, estates and inheritances,
interest on income,
rebates and returns, checks in the mail,
gifts and surprises, money going further,
bills decreasing and blessings increasing.
Thank You Lord for rebuking the devourer
all the days of may life,
as he seeks to steal, kill or destroy,
Your bountiful blessings in my life.
Amen!

First they declare a verse of scripture totally not related to giving 10% of money wages. Then they talk about “sowing seeds”. Seed is NOT MONEY. Seed is the Word of God. This is the same error John Hagee makes. Then while giving 10% under the compulsion of feeling they are “robbing God” if they don’t, they declare they are giving willingly and of a joyful heart, not under compulsion. They claim they are bringing the “tithes into Your church”. Given we saints are the church, does this mean that this is the Deuteronomy 14:22-27 tithe and they are going to have a big party with all the money? They tell the Father they are testing Him, when Jesus made it clear we should not put the Lord our God to the “test”, Luke 4:12. Then they claim the windows of Heaven will open and all sorts of MATERIAL THINGS will fall out for them. It’s like a list out of Forbes Magazine! (Where did they get the silly list of things they want from?) This is the heretical doctrine God has the apostle Paul warn against in 1 Timothy 6. The thing it is noted saints should FLEE from and that is spawned from those who are of depraved mind and deprived of the truth. The declaration above is NOT representative of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus, but a false gospel.


The final one that will be reviewed here is not really a “chant” others are told to recite, but some pimp’s prayer for those he fleeces:

Reconciliation Ministries International – Dr. Guy Peh Head Pastor Pimp
This pimp claims this is his prayer for all that give him money. He calls those who give him money “Friends of the Nations”.

Prayer for Friends of the Nations:

Father I bless the sowers of Friends of the Nations program. I bless them with with the open floodgates of heaven pouring out such a blessing that they cannot contain it.

In the name of Jesus .I release genius, imagination, and creativity into them. I release an entrepreneurial spirit over them and I release the spirit of increase into their lives as they sow their seed. I bless them with jobs or better jobs, raises and bonuses, benefits, sales and commissions, favorable settlements, estates and inheritances, interest and income, rebates and returns, discount and dividends, check in the mail, gifts, surprises, found money, royalties, scholarship, grants, paid off bills and demolish debts, blessings and increase. I bless the Friends of the Nations program with abundant funds to do the work of the Kingdom and to bring in the harvest

In Jesus’ name. (Prayer of Dr. Guy Peh for Friends of the Nations)

How can any man proclaim he’s blessing somebody with “the open floodgates of heaven pouring out such a blessing that they cannot contain it.”? Is it not GOD who does any granting of anything from Heaven? How can a man claim he is telling the Father that he is blessing someone with something from Heaven? Is “Dr. Guy” Christ? Then he goes off into a litany of material things and claims it is for the benefit of “the work of the Kingdom”, in the name of Jesus. This certainly has the ring of a false teacher who is warming up for a run in with Matthew 7:21-23.

Saints, please don’t go around reciting unbiblical things like this and avoid all who seek to have you say them. Pray for them, if they are willing to listen show them it is great error, never affirm it. It is a message of another gospel and not the truth.



58 Responses to “Insane Prosperity Cult Giving Chants!”

  1. Praiser4Life Says:

    I can’t believe that just a little less than a year ago I was chanting this same foolishness. Thank God for his mercy and deliverance.

  2. speakingtruth Says:

    It’s about time that this article made it through the log jam, particularly because of it’s importance.

    I used to chant Pimp Landers’ mantra with my hands pointing at him so as to “direct my prayers” :roll:

    Father, we will build you a house.
    Finished, Full and Free!

    See, that’s a bald-face lie. Landers built that $22M house (which was originally planned to be $12M, and the original pledges totaled $17M AFTER he added on all the grand touches to impress other pimps) – it’s already finished, members have been leaving in droves (they removed 2,000 chairs from the “sanctuary” so that it doesn’t appear empty), and it certainly wasn’t/isn’t “free”.

    Also, when I was attached to the “Matrix” via an IV tube, we used to say “if you can’t support the vision or the visionary, then you should leave”. Thank God through Jesus Christ that I got away from Pimp Landers (and Long) and am now absorbing God’s truth Vs. a pimp’s mantra!

    The funny thing is that Landers is so sociopathic and paranoid that he would blow his stack if he knew that some church club and wanna-be pimp in California was steeling his chant! :lol:

  3. ncatina Says:

    As a person who went to a church here in PHL, and visiting another within the last 18 months, one has to wonder whether people in the congregations actually BELIEVE what they are saying. For me, there were too many times when I was once caught up in this crap the doubts and cynicism would rise within me. The thoughts of having my “tithe,” “offering,” “pledge” monies continually feed into institutional growth with no real expectation of return to me, or help for those needing it, sickens me.

    Another corresponding aspect of this is the fact that some of the same bloated mega-churches are occupying space in very impoverished areas. For the time they stay there, NONE of that money that is taken in from all of these “confessions” is going to those that need it most. Note that all of these confessions, including those from my last church, were ALWAYS centered around having people receive more money, through faith in God, just to have go back into the church. It is never to ask for help to those in need or to help build the surrounding community.

    These churches are parasitic by nature, and the only way to stop a parasite is to kill it. With the economy in such a mess, this is what needs to happen to halt the church pimp game.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 3:09 pm :

    ncatina – Don’t worry about that money that is gone, I’m so glad the Lord got me away from the pimps. His loving grace is priceless. Many of us gave money to pimps, that would have been better put to use helping those near us who had real needs. I’m sure like me, back then even when the Lord willed that you received a large sum of money, you felt obligated to give the pimp the largest portion of anything you gave away. When there were others near you who really needed it and it could have been put to much better use. Thank the Lord we now know better. He did not leave us in delusion! But forgive those who despitefully used you, they don’t know the full extent of the evil they are doing. Perhaps the Lord will call them to repentance in this life and pray that if it be the Lord’s will they repent before their end in this life, or the Lord will repay them for their evil in the worst way in the next.

    The Lord’s will be done!

  4. stan Says:

    This fascination, or rather, obsession among those claiming to be believers, with material structures shows just how spiritually backward they’ve become.

    In the days when God spoke in parables and symbols, the most profound one was the Temple. According to architects’ cost analysis, Solomon’s temple complex cost over $175 billion to build.

    In Ezekiel, God likens the Temple to the prophet’s wife, whose death was a metaphor for the Temple’s destruction.

    The disciples bragged to Jesus about the grandeur of Herod’s Temple.

    In centuries past, cathedrals bankrupted entire towns and killed its workers to “the Glory of God.”

    The point is that it is a very human and fleshly thing to build structures and admire them as their grand accomplishments. John calls such an attitude “the pride of life,” an element of “the world.” We are to be crucified to the world, and the world to us.

    Peter describes us believers as “living stones.” The Temple, once an edifice of large and costly stones, becomes now a past, physical illustration of a spiritual, invisible and true reality. Our worship is no longer “toward earthly Jerusalem,” or at a Temple; but rather is directed upward to our Heavenly Father, the Most High God, Who lives atop the New Jerusalem, a mountain city not made by human hands. We worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

    To enslave Christians financially to expensive, physical buildings instead of allowing them to share their goods with other “living stones” who are in need, is for man’s glory, not God’s.

    It is certainly OK to have a meeting place; but its expense should illustrate Christian modesty, not be a proud showpiece of prosperity. Meeting places must never place a burden on the people that its upkeep prevents the believer from generous, private almsgiving.

  5. escapeetoo Says:

    IC,

    I am so glad to see this post. Just like ST I too used to chant this same mantra. And the sad thing is that I used to defend it! I thank God He has delivered me from this “cultist” behavior.

    I actually SAW this “Givers Confession” evolve over time. The statement at the end, …finished full and free…, came out of the mouth of a minister in the club (Who has since left the club). The statement came at the end of a corporate prayer session around 2005.In those days the building campaign was geared more toward the need to help the people of Henry and Clayton County Ga. I now see that this was just a smoke screen to help build the NBSMC Family Life Center (The sanctuary will require another Pimp move).

    The edifice in Hampton (AKA Club Hustle & Flow)is a monument to Landers. He has said that this (getting his own church) is what he always wanted. He also repeatedly reminds the “sheeple” that ‘his name is on the paperwork’ Well, he got what he wanted on the backs of God’s people.

    I can’t agree with you more about this topic!

    http://escapee.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/what-you-got-on-my-offering-deebo-like-pimpin/

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm :

    Escapeetoo – Did you know back when I was with Eddie Long’s club, DeeBo aka Tom “Tiny” Lister was also a member there? Now he claims membership with the West Angeles Church of God in Christ, with very flaky Charles E. Blake.

    Recently, DeeBo aka Tom “Tiny” Lister came through Chattanooga, to ride on his trademark bicycle through some of the gang infested communities to tell them about “gangster Jesus”.
    Chattanooga: Tommy “Tiny” Lister brings stop violence message to neighborhoods

    Actor Tommy “Tiny” Lister says his coming to Chattanooga is a sign that “things have gotten out of control.”

    Mr. Lister, known for his role as neighborhood bully Deebo in the films “Friday” and “Next Friday,” will ride a bike through Chattanooga neighborhoods Saturday to inspire youth to see beyond their circumstances and to evangelize against gang violence. He’ll also speak Sunday at local churches.

    “Tell the kids their big brother Deebo is coming and I’m bringing a gangster named Jesus,” Mr. Lister said.

    “This ain’t no Peter Pan stuff we’re doing,” he said. “When you ask me to come in, you’re asking me because things have gotten out of control. Kids are shooting each other.”

    Jeff Seay, a member of Temple of Faith Church, coordinated the event with Mr. Lister and area ministers after meeting Mr. Lister at his church in Los Angeles.

    “I want young people to see someone who has made it and know that they can make it, too,” Mr. Seay said.

    I’m glad he wants to reach out to kids who need Christ, but reducing Jesus to the role of some “gangster” really is not a good idea. The focus I hope was fully on Christ and not that he “made it” into a movie career where he played in roles that really were not godly at all. It’s good they made the effort and may the Holy Spirit guide them.

    speakingtruth reply on July 13th, 2008 at 7:41 pm :

    IC, escapeetoo tilled soil on Eddie’s plantation before he got over to Andre too. In fact, he was there when you and I were there – from Snapfinger to Woodrow Rd. And yes, Deebo was all in the front row at CNB (along with Usher, Puffy, Montell Jordan, Quincy Cater and others). And of course Eddie never really cared for James 2:1-4, so you got “special treatment” if you were a “somebody”.

    :roll:

  6. briabria37 Says:

    Approx 3.5 years ago, I TOO was chanting mantras in hopes of becoming rich. We’d even go a step further and gesture GRABBING MONEY FROM THE SPIRIT REALM…smh…we’d demand money come from the NORTH EAST SOUTH & WEST! The pastor even (for lack of a better word) commanded the parishioners to buy houses (I’m in MI), I jumped on the bandwagon-looked at many houses, but didn’t feel comfortable pursuing homeownership (can u say Holy Ghost??)-for I knew trouble would result. Can I tell u that many of the people who purchased homes have experienced foreclosure, are getting ready to go into foreclosure or were a part of the ARM loans that their mortgages double/ tripled!!!

    Sadly, for the “Christian” who’s aim is to get rich-they WILL step on and over the Bible to “catch ahold” of the words of a trickster parading around as a ‘pastor’ who throws out kibbles, bits and nuggets of futile words as if they were a life-preserver in exchange for cash, money orders, credit cards, debit cards, cashier checks, and gifts.

    Also, i was told to “bless the head” of the church aka pastor (thought that was Jesus) and watch the blessings flow down unto me. u know what i blessed him with? A beautiful lapel pin (cost a couple of bucks from bible book store) that showcased a genuine ‘mustard seed’ as a sign of faith-he wore it the day I gave it to him and I’ve never seen it since.

    To God be the glory anyhow!

  7. young1lookin4thetruth Says:

    We just got finished repeating a tithe confession today in service and ours is a little different from the ones above but it is still promoting the fact that we have to give our money to be blessed by God.

    This week is also my pastor’s anniversary week and every day a visiting pastor comes and charges the church to bless the man of God with a huge amount of money and if we don’t have it then it’s like we’re being disobedient to the voice of God or something. Now I’m not saying my pastor is one of the pimps or anything because I believe he is very sincere but the teaching he has received is causing him to continue with the traditions of men. Just today he reminded us of someone coming last year during the anniversary saying that we were supposed to be giving $250 this year and next year give $300 and the following year give $350 and so on and so forth til we get to $500. Well he told us to raise our hands to see who obeyed that and only 2 people did. He said well we had 365 days to save up for it so there should be no excuse as to why we don’t have it. He said that this week is his and his wife’s week (she’s the “co-pastor”) and we’re supposed to be a blessing to them. He did say that it’s not about money and that we should still show our face if we don’t have it but my thing is the anniversary is all about money because every night we have to give something new and then we pay for the tickets on the last night for the big banquet. I’m a praise dancer so I normally just bless him, the people, and God with a praise dance. I don’t do it for show, but I do it for God because that’s the gift he’s given me.

    Anyway, I’m thankful for this post and this blog because my eyes are really being opened and I’m so glad they’re being opened now while I’m young. Everyone please keep me (Brittany) and my church family (God of Deliverance Ministries in NC) in your prayers.

    truthis reply on July 13th, 2008 at 6:00 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth:
    You said: I’m a praise dancer so I normally just bless him, the people, and God with a praise dance.
    Hey, be thankful you can get away with only dancing-be forewarned from my own experience-your talent is one thing then “oops where is your offering?” A committee-a leader will be”on you” to give that special offering. Silly me I knew nothing about the anniversary scam-the church i grew up in did not push it so i thought church anniversary was just that i did not know you need to have the pastor’s love offering-minimum $300-and when i did not give it i was called a “witch” from the pulpit-What? When I talked it over with the pastor he told me that my talent was good enough because it blesses the ministry causing others to come in droves.Hello!!! It starts out small–when it came time for those stimulus checks through the irs-honey, you guessed it…they wanted us to give pledges for the man of gawd. Thats why i say it starts subtle–my church is not huge but they started subtle and hooked up with a pimp unfortunately so now yes they do good ministry but hello-
    Thanks to IC and Speakingthetruth-I visit you guys faithfully and you’ll have been helping me-you see i visited your former plantation and was about to make that move but then i found ic thank you

    speakingtruth reply on July 13th, 2008 at 7:36 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth – you said:

    Now I’m not saying my pastor is one of the pimps or anything because I believe he is very sincere but the teaching he has received is causing him to continue with the traditions of men

    I hear your heart in your comment, so please know that I say this respectfully…your pastor is a pimp. I can say that without a shadow of a doubt because you go on to say:

    Just today he reminded us of someone coming last year during the anniversary saying that we were supposed to be giving $250 this year and next year give $300 and the following year give $350 and so on and so forth til we get to $500. Well he told us to raise our hands to see who obeyed that and only 2 people did. He said well we had 365 days to save up for it so there should be no excuse as to why we don’t have it. He said that this week is his and his wife’s week (she’s the “co-pastor”) and we’re supposed to be a blessing to them. He did say that it’s not about money and that we should still show our face if we don’t have it but my thing is the anniversary is all about money because every night we have to give something new and then we pay for the tickets on the last night for the big banquet.

    That’s pimpistry 101! The Apostles (the real Apostles, not men who claim the title today) NEVER solicited money for the Gospel – they preached freely AND for free (and they certainly didn’t suggest a particular dollar amount to show your allegiance). Paul let it be known to anyone questioning his intent when he preached Christ crucified:

    2 Corinthians 2:17 (New Living Translation)

    You see, we are not like the many hucksters[a] who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ’s authority, knowing that God is watching us.

    So we see that if ANYBODY comes before you requesting a specific donation (repeatedly) then they are showing you just how insincere they really are. If you pay attention even more, you’ll hear how he twists doctrine and scripture to suit his needs, and he invites others to preach who share the same ungodly philosophy.

    Keep blessing God with your talent and your sincere heart for Him and His people – and flee the pimp you’re submitted to. Trust me – I speak from experience…

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 9:18 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth – This is not an issue of the pastor at God of Deliverance Ministries requesting a salary to meet his needs. (Which scripture certainly affirms saints should do for good elders 1 Timothy 5:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 9:11-14. This is a liberty Paul did not exercise on his own behalf but he very much defended saints taking care of good elders.) He’s already getting that in the regular take. He is going over and above with a special additional benefit for himself and it’s a benefit he’s lording over your assembly. Even having those who pay stand up to give them special recognition and attempting to shame you who do not pay.

    So he’s working for his own belly, without showing modesty. And scripture not only condemns the money games he’s playing, but his “lording” over you as well.

    1 Peter 5:1-3 (New American Standard Bible)

    1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,

    2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;

    3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

    And young1lookin4thetruth, all of us thought when we were being pimped, that our pimp was not like the rest.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 9:36 pm :

    Basically an elder at the maximum should openly seek no more than his basic needs met, while the saints should be giving good elders even above their basic needs. (The overage should come from the saints willingly, not because any elder made demands for it. A good elder is going to receive it because people want him to have it and he never made requests for it.) But when the elder is seeking more themselves and through their proxies they toss into the pulpit, to act like it was never arranged, that’s a major problem.

    young1lookin4thetruth reply on July 13th, 2008 at 9:49 pm :

    Thanks for everyone’s insight on this…
    Tonight at service the message was entitled “Feeding to be Fed.” I had no major problem with it because my understanding was the pastor needs our money to take care of the church bills and his personal ones because pastoring is his job. Well the speaker brought up this scripture- I Corinthians 8:7-14. Verse 11 says “If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?” He was saying that for all the messages that pastor preaches and all the nights he prays for us and visits at the hospital, etc. we should be glad to give unto the man of God and give honor to whom honor is due. Well I don’t really have a problem with that because I love to give especially when I have it.

    When he raised the offering, he said get something in your heart and give unto the man of God. But immediately after he said let’s start it off with $50. The only thing I don’t appreciate about ministers saying that is why can’t they keep the amount they’re giving to themselves and just call everybody up and let them give what’s on their heart.

    My other thing was this (sorry I’m writing so much but I want to get an understanding) he said your pastor should have the best. He shouldn’t be lacking for anything. We should sacrifice and give to make sure him and his family are taken care of. No disrespect to any pastor but what about if I’m struggling and need some help? I mean I can’t even go back to college this semester coming because I don’t have enough money, etc. Do our blessings really come out of blessing the man of God? I regularly give love offerings to him because I expect a return, but it just seems the return is slow. God does honor our giving to the pastor right?

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 10:39 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth – You are being misled in a false gospel.

    Your pastor appears to be having proxies come in to guilt you into giving him more money. And often these guys work these things out behind closed doors. And often when the guest speaker says he’s going to give the pastor $50, he gets that plus in return behind the scenes. It’s often all setup. I can’t say what is going on there behind closed doors (I’m not in the room there), but I can only say it looks like the classic games that are played.

    As I said, the money a pastor gets above the basics should be because saints wanted to give it because the elder is a good elder, not because he put someone in the pulpit to guilt you into doing it.

    Personally, I think your pastor is a creep. I’ve seen some of his selected sermons online and it turns my stomach even listening to a few moments of it. He’s acting as if God is speaking straight to him about things and hoping you all buy into it. He’s a liar. If he was telling the truth, all his talk from his sermon about “abundance” would have already been happening for you, he said “now” was the time it would happen. That you’d have abundance and all be without illness. This makes your pastor a FALSE PROPHET. You should run now and if you want to speak with him, do it later AT A DISTANCE.

    No, you don’t get money in your pocket for giving a pastor money. You don’t get money in your pocket for giving a poor person money either. There are no such guarantees you’ll see a return in money. Giving with the desire for a monetary return is to give with the wrong motives at heart. I recommend you read the book of James in full, it’s just 5 chapters long. You don’t know what the Lord might will in regards to your earthly state, so you never do things in the Lord’s name for the sake of getting yourself money. Which is why pastors should not be pressing for money and more money either. We are to be content if our basic needs are met. In regards to returns for giving, we should seek and prefer a reward after this life when we are with the Lord.

    When it comes to giving, this is the rule.

    2 Corinthians 9:7 (New American Standard Bible)

    7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    You should give what you feel personally comfortable with giving. It should be the THE LORD leading you in your personal giving and NOT the guy on stage with a mic in his hand.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 10:56 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth – Your pastor has no business claiming God told him anything not coming from rightly divided scripture. But regarding the things he claims “Gawd said”, that he’s just claiming were said to him alone, check this out:

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22 (New American Standard Bible)

    20 ‘But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’

    21 “You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’

    22 “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

    Now we don’t go stoning people in this period of grace, although the stoning order for false prophets was never formally abolished. What it means though, is that you are to treat him as an accursed man, somebody you should be running from. I mean seriously, you won’t ever catch me near your pastor, unless it’s for the sole purpose of exposing him to others. Just from what I know of him from what is on his web site, I will never listen to anything from him, unless he had a major turn towards truth or I was simply analyzing him to expose more of his lies. He’s a false prophet and it only takes ONE false prophesy to make a false prophet. Which is why it’s best for people not to claim they heard God telling them anything they didn’t get from rightly divided scripture.

    And when I say, you won’t catch me near your pastor, I would not even pay attention to any other pastor who hangs out with your pastor. I mean you should be treating that man as if he’s radioactive, but worse. You may not see it now, but I saw many things more clearly in time once I was away from the pimp I used to hang around, Eddie Long.

    speakingtruth reply on July 13th, 2008 at 10:57 pm :

    young1lookin4thetruth, IC has given you excellent context regarding the proper compensation for the elder of your church. I just have to add my 2 cents. I served in ordained ministry to my former pimp, and I know for a fact that visiting preachers ALWAYS split the “special offering 50/50 – that’s why they beat the drum so loudly to try to get you to honor your “mand of Gwad – tha mand that labors in the Word for you day in and day out” and intimidate you into “sowing into his life because he sow so much into your life”.

    The scripture you meant to reference is actually 1 Corinthians 9:7-14 – and as usual, the pimps love to take this passage of scripture out of context to support their attempt to extort you for your money. If you read the entire 9th chapter of 1 Corinthians, you’ll see the chapter in it’s proper context. In context, we see that Paul talks about his right to earn a living from the Gospel (which as IC pointed out above, that’s not entirely unreasonable – particularly for a modest lifestyle). However, Paul clearly renounced his right to “profit” from the Gospel (and dare I say, to immodestly profit). In fact, in 1 Corinthians 9:15-19, Paul explains why he didn’t “pimp the people” – because he was a slave to Christ in order to win more people to Christ. He didn’t want to take the focus off of Christ and put it on Him.

    The rest of the show you sat through was the typical “who’s gonna join me in blessing the mand and womand of Gawd” circus that stirs the emotions of the “have nots” who hope that by giving they will eventually become one of the “haves”. It’s a sick game that never gets old to these pimps because they are always able to grease a few dollars out of someone’s hands. Your pimp (I’m sorry, but I can’t bring myself to call this guy a pastor since he is clearly employing the money shakedown) could care less that you are struggling financially and can’t afford to go back to college – and don’t bother going to him for benevolence because they’re gonna tell you to “activate your faith instead of looking for a handout”.

    Your blessing does not come from ANY MAN – it already came from God through the Person of Jesus Christ. Your blessing was the acceptance of the free gift of salvation through the shed Blood of Christ – anything else is according to the Lord’s will. Love offerings, birthday offerings, first fruit and any other special “sowing opportunity” is a SCAM. God CANNOT be bought – and you have to repent for ever allowing a pimp to appeal to your flesh (your desire or need for money or material things). The Lord gives as He wills so we shouldn’t expect any material return from Him – He gave enough already!

    young1lookin4thetruth – I can sense that you’re starting to see truth as it relates to your pimp, and I pray that you seek God during this eye-opening time. ALWAYS square up what your pimp or his friends say with the Word of God – and you will CLEARLY SEE that you’re listening to the wrong “mand of Gawd”.

    Sorry for going on so long IC, but you KNOW how this get’s my blood boiling…

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 11:14 pm :

    Honestly, I don’t feel 1 Corinthians 9 can be fully understood in it’s total and full context till I Corinthians 1 through I Corinthians 9 are read and it’s even better understood once reading I Corinthians and II Corinthians.

    The only time Paul accepted money was when he was literally in very bad shape and even then he claimed he “robbed churches” in taking money when he really needed it. He took the money and an abundance that had been offered to him, to keep him and those with him going.

    Paul and the Apostles are the gold standard Elders are supposed to strive to be like, although they can take a salary.

    But this guy we’re talking about in this particular sidebar…I think I’ve already said enough. Sometimes I find it’s best not to say too much. I’ve sounded the alarm, any adverse outcome anybody following him experiences from this point is not on my hands, Ezekiel 33. I saw the wolf, cried wolf and I’m leaving it there.

    speakingtruth reply on July 13th, 2008 at 11:23 pm :

    Honestly, I don’t feel 1 Corinthians 9 can be fully understood in it’s total and full context till I Corinthians 1 through I Corinthians 9 are read and it’s even better understood once reading I Corinthians and II Corinthians.

    Amen IC! – which is exactly why we need more expository preaching instead of this “grab 3 verses and spin it into the ground no matter how incorrect it may be” that we see today. I merely wanted young1lookin4thetruth (or anyone else reading this string) to read more than they are assigned during a sermon – especially if what they’re hearing could be further explored a few verses before or after what they were told to read.

    All in all I agree – no matter how this kind of thing angers me personally, the Lord’s will be done. I just thank Him that I stopped protecting my pimp and I made it off the plantation to be used by Him as He sees fit.

    Thanks again for this article IC – you can see how the pimps use these confessions and creeds to endear allegiance to their wicked schemes. God bless you, brother!

    IndependentConservative reply on July 13th, 2008 at 11:27 pm :

    God bless you brother and all glory is His, through Christ Jesus.

    young1lookin4thetruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 7:43 am :

    Thanks again IC and ST for clarity because that’s what I need. The only other issue is I have kind of shared these things with my parents and my mom seems to agree but my dad told me he dares me to believe any of it. See it’s going to be hard for me to leave because I still live with my parents and I’m under their rules. I don’t have a car of my own so I really can’t make my own decisions in that matter. I’m just really going to continue to pray because even though I see what you all are saying, it’s like wow God is this really happening? I mean as far as appearances go they’re not that really flashy with clothes or their house or the church. I mean they seem to be very sincere y’all. But I do hear what you all are saying. I will take to heart everything here and I will read the scriptures we receive in service in entirety along with my commentary to get a better understanding. Thanks again because the patterns that you all bring up I do see some at church.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 9:40 am :

    I’m just really going to continue to pray… But I do hear what you all are saying. I will take to heart everything here and I will read the scriptures we receive in service in entirety along with my commentary to get a better understanding.

    That’s the entire point of this and other similar blogs young1lookin4thetruth. If this conversation did nothing more than to drive you deeper into the Word of God, then the Lord’s will be done.

    Don’t upset your parents – just continue to seek the Lord for yourself and study His Word and He will NEVER leave you in a situation that doesn’t glorify Him. You are in my prayers – please let me or IC know if you’d like to communicate further (offline).

    ncatina reply on July 14th, 2008 at 10:39 am :

    ST & IC, thank you for the information you posted in response to young1lookin4thetruth. Although the information was directed to her, it was of great help to me in expanding my knowledge of apostolic behavior.

    Definitely another winner.

  8. stan Says:

    To those who are giving to rich pastors, consider this verse:

    “He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches, and he who gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty.” (Proverbs 22:16)

    This shows quite plainly that pastors who oppress their flock to get their money and when you give to rich ministers, you – the one who is told by them that you will prosper if you do – will both come to poverty. That judgment will occur either in this life or the next.

    God help everyone caught up in this modern religious scam, the perps and the victims.

  9. rascoe1 Says:

    IC there might be a “master copy” of the creeds. How about this:
    “Upon the authority of Your Word, I have given and it shall be given to me, pressed down, shaken together and running over.

    I am a tither. I bring my tithe today into Your storehouse. Therefore, the enemy is rebuked, the curse is broken. I live under an open heaven. You pour out upon me such a blessing that there is not enough room to receive it.

    We receive jobs and better jobs, raises and bonuses, sales and commissions, benefits and settlements, estates and inheritances, interest and income, rebates and returns, checks in the mail, gifts and surprises, bills paid off, debts demolished,royalties received, my whole family saved and walking with God, perfect health and abundance, to walk in divine favor and blessing.

    I am blessed going in. I am blessed going out. All that I do will Prosper in Jesus Name.”

    Do you see the alike they all are? Different Pastors just tweek it to make it personal, but it is the same thing.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 12:22 pm :

    Yea I know, they all are basically from the same template. I wonder who made the first? Where did you find the copy you just posted?

    I’ve even heard some spots that include “witty inventions” in their declaration. I figure they hacked the KJV translation of the statement from Proverbs 8:12, acting as if they will receive “wisdom” for giving a pimp money. (I’ve been to this spot and heard them include the “witty inventions” line, but since I could not get a full copy of their “declaration” I did not include it in this post. I’ve also heard another spot include the “witty inventions” line, but I’ve been told that spot although they still promote much mess they gave up on the chant, so I won’t mention them by name in this post.)

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm :

    You know that Flynn Johnson was a close co-hort of Fast Eddie back in the late 90’s, don’t you? Flynn even came in during those “Ishman” meetings.

    The whole “witty inventions” declaration is funny – and not in a ha ha way. Pimp Landers used to pray that God would give people “witty ideas that would enable them to generate revenue to bless the Kingdon (i.e. him…). I guess he didn’t want God to give people “witty ideas” if they weren’t used to make money – or to “sow into his life”. Those folks who weren’t willing to “sow” just had to get by with regular, “non-witty” ideas for the rest of their lives…

    Just more distended language to appeal to the flesh and propose the “quid pro quo” nature of their view of God – if we do “something”, then God will also do “something” on our behalf (at the behest of his prophet and resident mand of Gawd, of course)

    :roll:

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 2:03 pm :

    No, I never knew pulpit pimp Flynn Johnson was tight with pimp Fast Eddie! You know, many of Johnson’s people are with him because they felt “something was not right” about Eddie and left Club New Birth! They jumped from one mess right smack into another. Or rather they grew tired of one style of ear tickling and decided to find a new tickler. Flynn is smaller and uses those “encounter” and “cell” traps. If you don’t know about the “cell” mess that some pimps use, check these write-ups out:
    G12: Control, in Order to Better Reign – By an Ex-member of a G12 Cell Group
    Encountering G12 – Analyzing the “Cellular Vision” of César Castellanos
    Encountering G12 – The Encounter

    But you know, I never attended any of Fast Eddie’s “Ishman” meetings.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 2:10 pm :

    I’m very familiar with the intimate encounter/cell “meeting” theory – Fast Eddie tried that at his club and I was a member of a “cell group” before I started following Pimp Landers. In fact, Pimp Lander’s church started with the members of his cell group (after Eddie “launched him out”).

    And you definitely saved your Saturday mornings by avoiding that Ishman mess altogether…

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 2:52 pm :

    Apparently then Pimp Johnson is using the “cell” model with “encounter” sessions to a greater extent than Pimp Long. I guess because Pimp Johnson’s club is smaller. Pimp Johnson commits everybody entering his club to a “cell” if they plan to stick around and they practically break arms to have people attend “encounter” sessions. It’s not like Eddie’s club, where you can visit every week and be nearly invisible, with the exception of what you get from the pimp (Eddie) on stage with the mic in his hand. Pimp Johnson puts the “cell/encounter” on EVERYBODY. And many of the pimped love it. Many don’t have family near and so they fall hook, line and sinker for the “Love Bombing” treatment.

  10. rascoe1 Says:

    It is from the church I attend. Remember, I mentioned it sometime last month. ST, I am still there, the move will come. My eyes are open and I no longer repeat the creed.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 1:06 pm :

    Still praying for you rascoe1. What is happening is the Lord’s will – and His will be done in His timing.

    Remember…I was an enforcer and believer in my pimps for over 12 years before God lifted the fog from my eyes long enough to see how in error I was. Just keep chasing Him and He’ll guide you in regards to them

  11. rascoe1 Says:

    Thanks for your prayer ST. It has absolutely nothing to do with the pastor, its just timing. I have to leave at the right time, you know, when the Holy Spirit say “NOW!!!!!!!”. Believe me, I am listening. I really dont know the pastor, he seem like a really nice guy, and while he preaches the word in some instances, I am aware of lots of errors. As I said my brother, timing. Do I consider him a pimp? YES!!!!!!!!. Am I swayed by it? Not since the begining of the year.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 2:11 pm :

    1 Timothy 6:10-11 (New American Standard Bible)

    10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

    11 But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.

    When the Holy Spirit let me recognize the existence of the word “FLEE” in verse 11, I then realized that for over 1000 years the Lord has been speaking straight from scripture, that anybody recognizing a pimp should leave immediately. And I had to leave Club New Birth just around that time.

    Before then, I thought that although my prior efforts to communicate my concerns didn’t bring any change, that I was suppose to sit around there as a member and just “pray”. Then the Lord let me notice the word FLEE.

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm :

    Flee:1 – to run away, as from DANGER or pursuers;
    2 – to move swiftly: fly, speed
    3 – evade, escape, avoide, shun, elude.

    Scripture does not give me any room to sit and wait, now does it? The Holy Spirit has already spoken, and I need to act. I stopped going on Wednesdays for a while now. I think I go on Sunday more out of habit than anything else, and I know that is not a good enough reason.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:02 pm :

    Excellent exegesis rascoe1! Exegeting the text makes the Word all the more clear, doesn’t it?

    That’s why the pimps hate it when the sheep learn how to rightly divide the Word – it makes you less dependent on them!

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:05 pm :

    I am trying my brother, I am trying.

    ncatina reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:14 pm :

    Rascoe, you are doing PRECISELY what I was doing when I eventually left the last congregation I was once part of. It was a weaning where, initially, I was not coming out for as many bible studies (or would leave early) but would continue the Sunday services. When and as I continued to read scripture and make my observations, it became evident for me to STOP coming altogether.

    What we all need to recognize is that God HAS ALREADY given us instruction regarding these type of situations. To that end, no further “prayer” is needed; just get up and go!

    It was this same thing I shared with a current member during a chance encounter at a local store last Friday. After she inquired on my whereabouts and then my telling her about my leaving the church, all she could offer was “…make sure it was not the flesh…” and that to “…just obey the Spirit.” Without being very specific, I told her that I located and read specific scriptures addressing the moves I made to separate from the congregation. To that end, I WAS “obeying the Spirit.” Though well-intended, she repeated the oft-parroted mantra w/o any real understanding of what was very plainly stated in scripture. At that point, we both vowed to at least keep touch.

    Understand, these pimps know that sheeple are creatures of habit, and are not going to be eager to leave what is familiar. It is only the maturing saints that will come to their senses, making that commanded bee-line out of the church, bringing to mind a ’90s hip-hop track “I’m Looking at the Front Door” by Main Source.

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:43 pm :

    You are right ncatina.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:56 pm :

    “I’m Looking at the Front Door” by Main Source

    Thanks ncatina – now I’ve got that track running through my head :lol:

  12. young1lookin4thetruth Says:

    Just a question that I would like anybody to answer:

    Isn’t almost every church “pimpish” in some way? I say that because every one I have been to is. Where do you all go because I think I might have to move :)

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm :

    Most church assemblies unfortunately are “pimpish”. It’s hard to find an assembly of saints walking closer in truth than a pimp, because those trying to uphold sound doctrine are not playing all the “seeker friendly marketing” tricks. They usually are smaller and given they are not extorting 10%+ you won’t see them on TV.

    I’ve found often the small little church in an area is either the one either on a more sound doctrine or perhaps just a crazy little cult :D . Seriously though, you don’t know unless you look. And typically a church teaching the truth is not going to be very large. Simply because sound doctrine is such a break from what many are used to, many people don’t want to be around it. Most people want entertainment. And people enjoy being lied to and told they’ve got money coming.

    Personally speaking, after about almost a full year of scoping the place out (me and the speaking pastor have been in plenty of communication during the time), we (family) just “joined” Concord Baptist Church here in Chattanooga, TN this past Sunday. And the pastor already knows that although I find that assembly to be the best available in the area in my personal opinion, even there I’ve talked with the pastor about things I feel need firming up and he agrees. He knows there are areas that need improving. But generally speaking, the doctrine is on point. It’s a REFORMED Southern Baptist spot. And being that Reformed doctrine is preached, it’s interesting the assembly is part of the SBC and you folks know I’ve had plenty critical to say about the SBC and will continue saying it. And it’s even more interesting given the newly installed SBC “President” teaches against the truth of the Doctrines of Grace, which is a foundational tenant of Reformed doctrine. So I’m now part of a little outpost that openly disagrees with Johnny Hunt :D .

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 3:43 pm :

    And no I don’t think you should move to Chattanooga, TN, but if you are able look around at more of the places in your area.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:17 pm :

    I agree with IC young1lookin4thetruth. Metro Atlanta is home to some of the most high profile apostates and heretics stalking the pulpit today: Eddie Long, Creflo Dollar, Wiley Jackson (who is a Bishop now), Earl and Donnie Earl Paulk, and various other archbishops, bishops, overseers, apostles, evangelists, and potentates.

    I’ve been off the plantation for less than a year and I’m still opening the Word with my family at our home – while visiting assemblies as the Lord leads. I too have embraced reformed theology, so I’m looking for a Reformed/Reformed Baptist assembly here in Metro Atlanta.

    Like IC said, you’ve got to put your feet to the street and visit churches face to face – that way you can hear what they’re preaching and line it up with the Word for yourself. Small biblically sound churches don’t try to attract people to them, conversly they repel people away from them because they won’t compromise the Gospel truth in order to make it more user-friendly. I visited a site called the 9 Marks to help me formulate a “scorecard” of what to look for in our next church home (they have a church locator on their site for churches in your area that meet the “marks”, but I can’t recommend them – you’d have to see for yourself). We’re leaning toward a particular Reformed assembly here in Atlanta and I’ll be meeting with the speaking elders to discuss their approach to scripture and leadership. I’ve requested meetings or sent emails with qustions to some of the other assembly’s we’ve visited but I’ve gotten no reply – another sign that you should keep looking around. My wife and I are in no hurry to “officially join” anywhere – and frankly my children would prefer that we continue with our “home church” (not because of my theological excellence, mind you, they’re just tired of me taking them all over the city). The most important thing is staying in God’s Word and learning how to “hear His Voice” through His Word so that you’re not taken advantage of again. I pray that you’ll find an assembly in your area that is built on sound biblical doctrine – you just have to look around.

    Hey IC – I meant to ask how that “Johnny Hunt” election was going to impact your assembly…I figured most of the SBC’s were Calvinists :lol:

    It figures that your assembly would get all “radical” once you finally decided to put down roots :lol:

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:42 pm :

    Young1lookin4thetruth, you are correct in your deduction and the reason for their pimpish behavior is GREED, ENVY and keeping up with the Jones’s. Everyone wants to get a piece of the “PIE” that is called “CHURCH”, (you know our body is the temple/church). In some cases the congregation might only be a few, but the desires of the “mand of gawd” and his “first lady” is to have a “mega church”, drive a bentley, live in a mansion, have his own plane and all the trappings you see in christiandom. It is usually about numbers, entertainment and gimmicks, rather than the pure Word of God, because this pulls the crowd and as a result more money. I too encourage you to read your Word continually, and as the Word instructs us, pray without ceasing, knowing that, the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, WILL teach you, guiding you into ALL truth .

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:46 pm :

    ST, if you hear of one in the Snelville, loganville area, please share.

    speakingtruth reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:55 pm :

    Will do rascoe1 you know I got your back :-D

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:56 pm :

    And young1lookin4thetruth, in the Bible, the words “Bishop”, “pastor” and “Elder” all mean the exact same thing. It’s just a pastor, nothing more. Today pimps use the terms in various ways, to act like they mean something more if they claim a title like “Bishop”. (And if I want to hear from someone who actually was in the office of “Apostle” I read my Bible.)

    Speakingtruth, you’ve embraced reformed theology! I’ll say to you as Melvin Jones said to me when I finally had to admit the reality of Predestination, welcome home brother :) . And you know, I remember at Club New Birth, when I was part of Project Destiny and potential mentors would proclaim how they “knew God was looking out” for them even BEFORE they were saved, because they knew they had done some things that should have KILLED THEM BUT DID NOT. And the “Free Will” female “pastor/minister” over the group would immediately interrupt the person giving their testimony to the group and proclaim “no God didn’t have some special covering over you” and the person (and this happened with more than one) giving their testimony would respond saying “but I KNOW God just had to be looking out because I SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD”. And the female minister being the “leader” of the group of course had to be allowed the last word. But it’s TRUE, God has to be keeping the elect alive till they repent! Just granting enough patients so they can live another day till the moment He calls them to repentance. And that makes perfect sense in relation to saints that feel God was somehow keeping them around just long enough to save their soul.

    Regarding Johnny Hunt, we’re just happy the SBC guidelines prevent the “denomination” from telling a local church what to preach. I’m personally not a big fan of “denominations” but at least in some cases they might let you know where a group stands on some issues. Most of the SBC is not on board with the Doctrines of Grace these days. (Never mind what the documented statement of beliefs says, most don’t believe it all.) Not long ago ALL the messages of someone like Charles Haddon Spurgeon were warmly embraced by the SBC, but today you won’t find many who honestly agree with his stance in favor of the doctrine of Predestination. And Spurgeon was so in favor of Predestination, he called all “Free Will” teaching “another gospel”.

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:59 pm :

    Spurgeon would probably die from a heart attack if he was alive and heard Johnny Hunt was the SBC “President” :D .

    AndyB reply on July 15th, 2008 at 9:09 am :

    Just a little side-note about Mark Dever’s 9marks.org – it’s the site that helped me find the current church I’m attending. While you’ll want to investigate ANY congregation you consider joining, I can say for certain that 9marks is a good starting point to give you some leads.

    In the meantime, keep your Berean ears on while in your current church. For about 8 or 9 months I attended my former church, making note of things that were off-kilter in sermons & discussions, trying to see exactly where something was being misinterpreted, ripped out of context, eisegeted, etc (helps keep the ol’ iron sharp). It kept building up until the pastor openly endorsed the Lakeland “Outpouring” one Wednesday evening as “a powerful move of God”. Next Sunday, I was attending a different church :)

    Also, if your family situation forbids you from attending services somewhere else, MAKE SURE that you’re listening to some sound sermons/Godly-advice from somewhere. Grace to You, DesiringGod, Ligonier, the White Horse Inn, Way of the Master Radio – something to help counteract any “sour milk” you’re getting on Sunday morning. Share these with your family, too (or play em loud enough for them to hear). And by ALL means, continue to read the Word on your own. Grab some pens and highlighters, take an epistle (I recommend 1 John) and read it completely through once a day and just dive into it. Going deep in God’s Word is more refreshing that jumping into a swimming pool in mid-Summer ;)

    speakingtruth reply on July 15th, 2008 at 10:10 am :

    thanks for the validation about your experiences with 9Marks AndyB. I too visited a church that they recommended and was happy to see that they stood on firm biblical foundation and sound doctrine. I chose not to return to that church (logistics issues), but they definitly met the mark (no pun intended).

    Also, IC I agree – Spurgeon would be shocked to see the ascension of Hunt, but what can you do? I’m contemplating doing a post on predestination since it’s such a fundamental doctrine that most folks can’t grasp (“I came to God, He didn’t come to me!”). Not surprised that the “female pastor/minister” at CNB reacted the way that she did – Eddie pushes that “little gods” theory so predestination flies in the face of that.

  13. IndependentConservative Says:

    Although the following was noted in regards to the Hebrews, it obviously has application for many of you who are still seeking better than a pimp in your area.

    Romans 11:2-6 (New American Standard Bible)

    2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

    3 “Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.”

    4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

    5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.

    6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

    Keep searching for those saints near you that stand on the truth of scripture and salvation by GRACE. Not claims you need to “rebuke the devourer” by WORKS of how high you can fill a basket with money.

    Don’t bow to Baal and don’t bow to the false doctrines of money!

  14. young1lookin4thetruth Says:

    Thanks IC! I will keep looking, well thinking about places because right now I really don’t have a choice. I think finding your site has been the best thing that has to happened to me all summer :) well besides the fact that God continues to wake me up every morning… Praise God for revelation!

    IndependentConservative reply on July 14th, 2008 at 4:27 pm :

    Also, be sure to check out the “Christian Blogs” and “Christian Links” above on the right hand side of this page. Lots of other good sites that you can also check out. The more you read of those standing against bad doctrines, it should help you.

    rascoe1 reply on July 14th, 2008 at 5:16 pm :

    Young1lookin4thetruth, the christian blogs and links suggested by IC have really helped me. I have been comming to this blog about a year now and have been richly blessed.

    ncatina reply on July 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm :

    Me too, definitely.

  15. truthis Says:

    small churches align with the Alphapimps then drop goes the weasel.
    One of the ministers came to me and said that I must have the anniversary money while i was walking out of the church-i was not working full time.Ok
    Then there was a request to get him a luxury watch,then another request to purchase him a luxury car..a friend from another pulpit church warned it will be a mansion next. This happened to her she had to sign for his luxury vehicle at their church along with 6 members.She said that because he and his wife prayed for them thats the least they could do. So she warned me.. What??

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