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	<title>Comments on: One Caribbean Pastor Sounds the Alarm About the Tradition of Man Known as &#8220;Church Tithing&#8221;.</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/</link>
	<description>The Independent Conservative saying what needs to be said!</description>
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		<title>By: rascoe1</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10562</link>
		<dc:creator>rascoe1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10562</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your encouraging words, my brother.  I will be keeping you informed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your encouraging words, my brother.  I will be keeping you informed.</p>
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		<title>By: speakingtruth</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10560</link>
		<dc:creator>speakingtruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10560</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What will I say to my friends? What about the ministries that I am in?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Get ready for excommunication &lt;b&gt;roscoe1&lt;/b&gt; - especially if they&#039;re &quot;drinking the Kool-Aid&quot;. You have to be honest - tell them that you&#039;re leaving because what you see and hear is in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the Word of God (and be prepared to refute them with scripture and verse). They can discount what you say, but they&#039;de be hard pressed to second guess what God says Himself.

Also, you have to process your emotions and leave them out of the way - this is a staight up and down, black and white move...there is no gray area when it comes to God&#039;s Word and His directives. I didn&#039;t mind staying at home at first because I was physically tired from all of the &quot;ministry work&quot; I did. Also, I had grown use to the &quot;entertainment&quot; and would surely miss that - but I also grew more and more thirsty for the Word, and that thirst helped me get used to reading my bible, sharing in worship songs with my family, expounding on scripture with them, etc.

I also was taught not to &quot;church hop&quot; by my former pimps, but I discovered that they just didn&#039;t want me to stumble upon the truth for myself. &lt;b&gt;IC&lt;/b&gt; really helped me understand that church membership (i.e &quot;officially joining&quot; a church) was secondary in importance when compared to the adhering to God&#039;s truth. It may seem &quot;different&quot; at first (ostly because your flesh will want to compare what you see at one church to what you&#039;ve seen/experienced at another, and so on), but I HIGHLY recommend that you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to (and away from) churches here in the metro-area. If you want to know &quot;what to be on the look-out for&quot;, then &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.9marks.org/CC_Content_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID616736%7CCIID,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click this link to learn some of the marks of a healthy church&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;em&gt;I&#039;m not endorsing any churches listed there, just the things to look for in a healthy church&lt;/em&gt;).

All in all, this is a process - and it requires dedication. I was telling another friend who escaped my former plantation that it was easier to just drink the pimps Kool-Aid than to learn and study for myself...and that&#039;s exactely why so many people stay under the pimps control. It&#039;s just &lt;em&gt;too hard&lt;/em&gt; to learn of and seek God for yourself.

Such a sad commentary...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What will I say to my friends? What about the ministries that I am in?</p></blockquote>
<p>Get ready for excommunication <b>roscoe1</b> &#8211; especially if they&#8217;re &#8220;drinking the Kool-Aid&#8221;. You have to be honest &#8211; tell them that you&#8217;re leaving because what you see and hear is in DIRECT OPPOSITION to the Word of God (and be prepared to refute them with scripture and verse). They can discount what you say, but they&#8217;de be hard pressed to second guess what God says Himself.</p>
<p>Also, you have to process your emotions and leave them out of the way &#8211; this is a staight up and down, black and white move&#8230;there is no gray area when it comes to God&#8217;s Word and His directives. I didn&#8217;t mind staying at home at first because I was physically tired from all of the &#8220;ministry work&#8221; I did. Also, I had grown use to the &#8220;entertainment&#8221; and would surely miss that &#8211; but I also grew more and more thirsty for the Word, and that thirst helped me get used to reading my bible, sharing in worship songs with my family, expounding on scripture with them, etc.</p>
<p>I also was taught not to &#8220;church hop&#8221; by my former pimps, but I discovered that they just didn&#8217;t want me to stumble upon the truth for myself. <b>IC</b> really helped me understand that church membership (i.e &#8220;officially joining&#8221; a church) was secondary in importance when compared to the adhering to God&#8217;s truth. It may seem &#8220;different&#8221; at first (ostly because your flesh will want to compare what you see at one church to what you&#8217;ve seen/experienced at another, and so on), but I HIGHLY recommend that you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to (and away from) churches here in the metro-area. If you want to know &#8220;what to be on the look-out for&#8221;, then <a href="http://www.9marks.org/CC_Content_Page/0,,PTID314526%7CCHID616736%7CCIID,00.html" rel="nofollow">click this link to learn some of the marks of a healthy church</a> (<em>I&#8217;m not endorsing any churches listed there, just the things to look for in a healthy church</em>).</p>
<p>All in all, this is a process &#8211; and it requires dedication. I was telling another friend who escaped my former plantation that it was easier to just drink the pimps Kool-Aid than to learn and study for myself&#8230;and that&#8217;s exactely why so many people stay under the pimps control. It&#8217;s just <em>too hard</em> to learn of and seek God for yourself.</p>
<p>Such a sad commentary&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: rascoe1</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10559</link>
		<dc:creator>rascoe1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10559</guid>
		<description>Speakingtruth, how did I miss that post.  That is exactly how I feel.  What will I say to my friends?  What about the ministries that I am in?  These are some of the questions that comes to my mind.  

The thought of staying home on Sundays does not appeal to me and I have never been one to visit different churches as long as I have a home church.  This however is wakeup time for me, I will have to make a move, and sooner than later.  I live in Loganville, if anyone knows of a church in this area please make a suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speakingtruth, how did I miss that post.  That is exactly how I feel.  What will I say to my friends?  What about the ministries that I am in?  These are some of the questions that comes to my mind.  </p>
<p>The thought of staying home on Sundays does not appeal to me and I have never been one to visit different churches as long as I have a home church.  This however is wakeup time for me, I will have to make a move, and sooner than later.  I live in Loganville, if anyone knows of a church in this area please make a suggestion.</p>
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		<title>By: speakingtruth</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10555</link>
		<dc:creator>speakingtruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10555</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;rascoe1&lt;/b&gt;, you said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The church I now attend is ok, the pastor preaches the Word, most of the time, (I have heard error). He does believe in tithing and firstfruit. I know he, like most will not be open to any dialogue on such matter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, that (to me) sounds like the &lt;em&gt;perfect&lt;/em&gt; reason to look for the door!

As you know from my blog - I also reside in the metro-Atlanta area, and I&#039;ve been without a formal church home all of this year. I&#039;m visiting assemblies at the direction of the Lord, but I also share the Word with my family (one of my children begged me to &quot;preach&quot; one Sunday morning so that we wouldn&#039;t have to visit another church :lol:). I really want to join a fellowship of believers, but I also REFUSE to submit to blatant error and games again. I know that no one is perfect, but I&#039;ll avoid an intentional pimp/false teacher as if my life depended on it.

I don&#039;t know if you saw the post I did earlier this year &lt;a href=&quot;http://imspeakingtruth.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/why-do-you-stay/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;detailing the importance of staying away from false teachers&lt;/a&gt;. Whenever we find error as it relates to the preaching of the Word of God AND we cannot address that error with the pastor, then we need to keep it moving because you&#039;re wasting your time.

Stay in prayer - and be on the lookout for another assembly...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>rascoe1</b>, you said:</p>
<blockquote><p>The church I now attend is ok, the pastor preaches the Word, most of the time, (I have heard error). He does believe in tithing and firstfruit. I know he, like most will not be open to any dialogue on such matter.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that (to me) sounds like the <em>perfect</em> reason to look for the door!</p>
<p>As you know from my blog &#8211; I also reside in the metro-Atlanta area, and I&#8217;ve been without a formal church home all of this year. I&#8217;m visiting assemblies at the direction of the Lord, but I also share the Word with my family (one of my children begged me to &#8220;preach&#8221; one Sunday morning so that we wouldn&#8217;t have to visit another church <img src='http://www.independentconservative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> ). I really want to join a fellowship of believers, but I also REFUSE to submit to blatant error and games again. I know that no one is perfect, but I&#8217;ll avoid an intentional pimp/false teacher as if my life depended on it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you saw the post I did earlier this year <a href="http://imspeakingtruth.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/why-do-you-stay/" rel="nofollow">detailing the importance of staying away from false teachers</a>. Whenever we find error as it relates to the preaching of the Word of God AND we cannot address that error with the pastor, then we need to keep it moving because you&#8217;re wasting your time.</p>
<p>Stay in prayer &#8211; and be on the lookout for another assembly&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10553</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10553</guid>
		<description>ST, yea I&#039;m going to get the &lt;em&gt;&quot;recite this and give me your money&quot;&lt;/em&gt; post out at some point.  This blog behind the scenes remains in a perpetual state of log jam :D .

Always posts that are yet to come out and still in the works.  And always things I never get an opportunity to address at all.  And always things that come up.  The post is coming though.  It really has been started, but won&#039;t be ready for posting for a while given the &quot;log jam&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ST, yea I&#8217;m going to get the <em>&#8220;recite this and give me your money&#8221;</em> post out at some point.  This blog behind the scenes remains in a perpetual state of log jam <img src='http://www.independentconservative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  .</p>
<p>Always posts that are yet to come out and still in the works.  And always things I never get an opportunity to address at all.  And always things that come up.  The post is coming though.  It really has been started, but won&#8217;t be ready for posting for a while given the &#8220;log jam&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: rascoe1</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10551</link>
		<dc:creator>rascoe1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10551</guid>
		<description>At my church the plate goes around once, unless there is a visiting minister, then it goes around twice.  The first, for all the tithes and the second, for all the offerings, which is then given to the visiting minister.  They know how to work it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At my church the plate goes around once, unless there is a visiting minister, then it goes around twice.  The first, for all the tithes and the second, for all the offerings, which is then given to the visiting minister.  They know how to work it.</p>
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		<title>By: rascoe1</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10550</link>
		<dc:creator>rascoe1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10550</guid>
		<description>Speakingtruth, you are right.  It will take some time though.  We have been in Georgia for 2 years,  we first visited a church in Conyers and it was just crazy.  A small church with big plans.  It was a little fifedom with the pastor, his apostle wife and family members running the show.  I think they are friends of Juanita Bynum.   

One Sunday just towards the end of the service, she told us the glory of God (in the form of a cloud) was to hovering in the building.  She suggested that we all gather under this cloud to be blessed.  I am really embarassed to say I did believe her.  Why would she lie in church?  It took a little while before I realised that we were being duped.  I think that whole &quot;glory in cloud&quot; business, she got from Juanita Bynum.  We left soon after, we stayed ther about two months.  

The church I now attend is ok, the pastor preaches the Word, most of the time, (I have heard error).  He does believe in tithing and firstfruit.  I know he, like most will not be open to any dialogue on such matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speakingtruth, you are right.  It will take some time though.  We have been in Georgia for 2 years,  we first visited a church in Conyers and it was just crazy.  A small church with big plans.  It was a little fifedom with the pastor, his apostle wife and family members running the show.  I think they are friends of Juanita Bynum.   </p>
<p>One Sunday just towards the end of the service, she told us the glory of God (in the form of a cloud) was to hovering in the building.  She suggested that we all gather under this cloud to be blessed.  I am really embarassed to say I did believe her.  Why would she lie in church?  It took a little while before I realised that we were being duped.  I think that whole &#8220;glory in cloud&#8221; business, she got from Juanita Bynum.  We left soon after, we stayed ther about two months.  </p>
<p>The church I now attend is ok, the pastor preaches the Word, most of the time, (I have heard error).  He does believe in tithing and firstfruit.  I know he, like most will not be open to any dialogue on such matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Christocentric</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10549</link>
		<dc:creator>Christocentric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10549</guid>
		<description>Well, you confirmed my suspicions about a pastor going to &quot;love offerings&quot; instead of salary.  At one of the largest baptist churches here in San Diego, the pastor did just that.  I remember thinking to myself, with the size of the church then he probably figured he get more from the offerings!

I used to go to this church faithfully, but was bugged out of my mind for their constant begging for money.  It got so bad that on some Sundays they would pass that plate for four different collections!!!

All the pimping and begging just convinced me to leave that church. The church I&#039;m going to now seems quite mild compared to that one.  Only one collection plate and no begging from the pulpit to make people give more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you confirmed my suspicions about a pastor going to &#8220;love offerings&#8221; instead of salary.  At one of the largest baptist churches here in San Diego, the pastor did just that.  I remember thinking to myself, with the size of the church then he probably figured he get more from the offerings!</p>
<p>I used to go to this church faithfully, but was bugged out of my mind for their constant begging for money.  It got so bad that on some Sundays they would pass that plate for four different collections!!!</p>
<p>All the pimping and begging just convinced me to leave that church. The church I&#8217;m going to now seems quite mild compared to that one.  Only one collection plate and no begging from the pulpit to make people give more!</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10548</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10548</guid>
		<description>Oh yea, I remember.  They learned that trick and many others from what is being taught through people with links to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.independentconservative.com/2006/11/09/pimp_u/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Prosperity Gospel Pimp University!&lt;/a&gt;

Basically, they figured out, that when the crowd is large, they make MORE going off salary and onto &quot;love offerings&quot; than they would staying on salary and having to haggle and deal with hassles when they want a salary increase.  Plus they get to guilt people into giving money to them by claiming they take no salary.

All the while, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bellministries.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BELL Ministries&lt;/a&gt; kept rolling.  So Eddie could make money still off speaking fees going on tour and selling his books and other materials.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncrp.org/AR-082805-AJC.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;And you know if anybody knows how to skim off the top of a charity, it&#039;s Eddie Long!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yea, I remember.  They learned that trick and many others from what is being taught through people with links to <a href="http://www.independentconservative.com/2006/11/09/pimp_u/" rel="nofollow">Prosperity Gospel Pimp University!</a></p>
<p>Basically, they figured out, that when the crowd is large, they make MORE going off salary and onto &#8220;love offerings&#8221; than they would staying on salary and having to haggle and deal with hassles when they want a salary increase.  Plus they get to guilt people into giving money to them by claiming they take no salary.</p>
<p>All the while, <a href="http://www.bellministries.org/" rel="nofollow">BELL Ministries</a> kept rolling.  So Eddie could make money still off speaking fees going on tour and selling his books and other materials.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncrp.org/AR-082805-AJC.asp" rel="nofollow">And you know if anybody knows how to skim off the top of a charity, it&#8217;s Eddie Long!</a></p>
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		<title>By: speakingtruth</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2008/06/23/one-carribean-pastor-sounds-the-alarm-about-the-church-tithing/comment-page-1/#comment-10546</link>
		<dc:creator>speakingtruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/?p=1925#comment-10546</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...Eddie Long’s Caribbean partner in pimping Neil Ellis speaking at Club New Birth&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s priceless :lol:

If you remember &lt;b&gt;IC&lt;/b&gt;, Ellis was the one who &quot;convinced&quot; Eddie Long to go on &quot;love offering&quot; vs. a traditional salary (back in 1997). Of course, Eddie &quot;hesitated&quot; but he &lt;em&gt;&quot;stepped out on faith&lt;/em&gt; and is still living on it today (remember when he used to say &lt;em&gt;&quot;Don&#039;t look around counting heads to see if your contributions aren&#039;t needed - make sure you contribute too&quot;&lt;/em&gt;).

I wonder if Eddie (or any other pimp collecting tithes and love offerings today) would have that &lt;em&gt;same&lt;/em&gt; faith if there were only 100 members at his club?

Ahh...the bad old days...:roll:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;Eddie Long’s Caribbean partner in pimping Neil Ellis speaking at Club New Birth</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s priceless <img src='http://www.independentconservative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you remember <b>IC</b>, Ellis was the one who &#8220;convinced&#8221; Eddie Long to go on &#8220;love offering&#8221; vs. a traditional salary (back in 1997). Of course, Eddie &#8220;hesitated&#8221; but he <em>&#8220;stepped out on faith</em> and is still living on it today (remember when he used to say <em>&#8220;Don&#8217;t look around counting heads to see if your contributions aren&#8217;t needed &#8211; make sure you contribute too&#8221;</em>).</p>
<p>I wonder if Eddie (or any other pimp collecting tithes and love offerings today) would have that <em>same</em> faith if there were only 100 members at his club?</p>
<p>Ahh&#8230;the bad old days&#8230;:roll:</p>
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