February 27, 2008

Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Idolatry Hits New Heights! Pastor John P. Kee Makes a Gospel Styled Song Claiming “Hope” and “Brighter Day” in Obama.

by @ 12:53 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade

I recall a great Gospel hymn, that features the following lyrics at the start:

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus? blood and righteousness.

And if you are a Christian, odds are good that you know of the song On Christ The Solid Rock, which was pinned by Edward Mote. You should read up on how Mote came to sing of his hope being on Christ alone. It is a fascinating story, to the glory of God in Christ’s name.

Today it seems political affairs are distracting saints into seeking hope on something other than Christ. Claiming “hope”, “a better way” and a “brighter day” in a favored politician. And it’s speeding down the road of idolatry, a road that ends in the pit! I’m certainly (and obviously) not against Christians claiming they might like a certain candidate, however we must avoid pinning “hope” on them and reserve “hope” in Christ alone!

Christians must always remain aware of the fact God’s plan must work to fulfillment and understand the “brighter day” will not be till His Son returns.

Matthew 24:4-8 (New American Standard Bible)

4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you.

5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

6 “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.

8 “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

Jesus did not tell us the world would be saved by a man of this day and age, hope only resides in Christ. For those who don’t know of this Jesus Christ I’m speaking of, please see John 3.

Our sister Covina sent me a video yesterday that is of great concern to me. Because it features a pastor who is respected in many circles of the faith, singing a song of “hope” in a man. That man being Barack Hussein Obama. The video is below.

Obama & John P Kee “Yes We Can”

That is idolatry to the core. No matter how good a man of this age might be, singing of anyone in that fashion is evil. It places hope on the man and not Christ. A pastor who is respected as a skilled gospel musician and singer, utilizing a group sounding like a gospel choir, to sing a song of “hope” on a man is totally against the Word of God.

1 Corinthians 10:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

Also consider this:

Galatians 5:19-26 (New American Standard Bible)

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Christians must all continue to strive to keep our minds focused on what is above and not in this earth.

Colossians 3:1-7 (New American Standard Bible)

1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,

7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.

I won’t harp in this post about policy efforts by Obama or things in his life that are ungodly. My only hope with this post is to encourage all saints, that even if you fully intend to support Barack Obama, please keep your support toned down to a level that does not amount to idolatry. Even if we disagree on political affairs, I sincerely pray we all join the Lord together, pinning our hope on Him alone. So that we all may one day reap the reward promised to those who keep faith on Him.

If I ever appear to be putting real hope on anything other than the Lord Jesus, I beg you to please offer me similar admonishment as I offer here.

Related posts:

update 2/27/2008 2:10PM:
In other Obama idolatry, Civil Rights Industry figure Jesse Jackson says he sees a “new heaven” in Obama.

Jackson, scheduled to be an analyst for NBC at the debate Tuesday, said Obama represents “the maturing of the success of our struggle. .?.?. I see a new heaven. I see a new America, where we learn to live together.”

The Bible shows the new heaven and land with righteousness are not in the candidacy of Barack Hussein Obama Jr., or any other political candidate.

2 Peter 3:13 (New American Standard Bible)

13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Hope is not in man, but Christ Jesus alone.

140 Responses to “Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Idolatry Hits New Heights! Pastor John P. Kee Makes a Gospel Styled Song Claiming “Hope” and “Brighter Day” in Obama.”

  1. SteelGator Says:

    Amen brother….Amen!!

  2. Praiser4Life Says:

    IC this is disgusting! So called christians are selling out left and right for this man.

  3. KyleNYC Says:

    On a side note of sorts, did anyone notice who was standing behind John McCain while he was denouncing Bill Cunningham’s comments?

    Rod Parsley.

    Uh huh.

  4. IndependentConservative Says:

    And more Conservatives leave the McCain bandwagon!

    The only question is, who has the worst of the worst pimps, McCain or Obama 😆 ?

  5. IndependentConservative Says:

    Here’s the video of McCain with Parsley, it’s at the 1:58 mark of the video counting up.

  6. SteelGator Says:

    Both parties are filled with the Pimps…..Parsley, Joyce Meyer, John Hagee on the right and T.D Jakes, Caldwell, and Kee. Do you notice something? The pimps seem to line up based on race. The pulpit pimps wouldn’t be racist would they?…lol.

  7. SteelGator Says:

    Cunningham is a trip….Why is calling someone by their full name a problem? If Bush’s or McCain’s middle name was Adolph, you better believe the leftists would be all over them.

    My problem with Obama is not his race nor his name. My problem is he does not recognize that the Islamofacists want to kill us and wipe out Israel. Another problem is Obama is more liberal than Hilldabeast. That is not too easy to do. Obama is a SOCIALIST.

  8. SteelGator Says:

    Just to clarify…Jakes, Caldwell and Kee are pimps on the left.

  9. SteelGator Says:

    More on Obama. In one of his books, he said that blacks and whites can never get along unless they convert to Islam and become brothers and sister of “the faith”. I can’t believed any Christian would ever vote for this racist, anti-Semitic, pro-terrorist former Muslim.

  10. IndependentConservative Says:

    SteelGator, cite your source. How did you learn this information? If you read the book yourself and saw this of your own eyewitness account, which book?

  11. KyleNYC Says:


    Really guys, and I don’t mean to be morbid, nor do I wish it on the guy, but it’s just a matter of time before Billary unleashes an “RFK” on Barry.

    Just a matter of time.

    And boy do I hope I’m wrong.

    P.S. – Good catch on the Parsley footage, IC.

  12. Cop Says:

    Out of the remaining presidental hopefulls, I “MIGHT” have to settle on Obama(anyones better than Bush), but by no means am I sold out for Obama, and I’m sure not going write and sing songs about him.

    Its strange to me that some of the black christian leaders seem to have a man crush on Obama.
    To bad their not as fanatical about Jesus as they are Obama. It would be interesting to see how many black people are voting for him strictly because he’s black and not on any issues.

  13. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well Bush is not running again, so he’s not a thought.

    Good to know you’re not caught up in the Obama worship.

    Regarding the issues, what would make you vote for a man you know OKs murder of babies in the womb? Knowing one or more Supreme Court justices will step down during the next term, you know Obama would pick the most Liberal thing with a pulse. Ensuring the evil continues full steam ahead.

    War might kill many, but check the counter on the left side of this page, over 6 million estimated murders in the wombs of American women and counting, since anything regarding Bush and Iraq began.

    There will be more than 2 people in the race for President.

  14. trayjay Says:

    JPK writing this song is just another example of how we tend to fall more
    and more once we begin to sell out and/or compromise. I stopped supporting
    his “ministry” when he did (in a live concert in Dallas Texas in the 90s)
    “Outstanding” by the Gap Band, changing the words a bit. Yes, I’m one of those
    people who adamantly believe that secular music has no place in the Church. And
    let’s not forget how he used and mistreated Vanessa Bell Armstrong before he got

    I also remember him standing on a podium at a church in Dallas in the 90s and
    saying that God told him that this was his last album/project, and followed up
    with the CD “Strength” which had the song “I Bow Out” indicating that he was
    leaving the industry at God’s command. Of course, it must have been that God
    changed His mind because here we are, at least 4 albums later, and he’s still
    doing what he previously said that God told him he was finished doing. Sounds
    like a real politician. Maybe he should be running for President.

    Anyway, of course he would stoop to encouraging people to put their hope in
    a man who can’t seem to make up his mind who his god is. Never mind his (Obama’s)
    support of abortion (America has killed more than 50 million babies) and the fact
    that God is going to call for a reckoning.

    As for me, I’m not even going to bother voting – instead, I will spend time
    praying that God have His way in Decision 2008 and that He would send Jesus
    back to get us asap.

  15. IndependentConservative Says:

    Let’s just say that you’re telling me a lot I never knew about this man.

    Yes, I’m one of those
    people who adamantly believe that secular music has no place in the Church.

    I am one of those people who agree with you. And every place I’ve seen that mixes secular tunes in an assembly of saints always has bad doctrine in more areas than just the “ministry of music”! Mixing with secular music, mixing with politicians, mixing with money changers and so on… All the while claiming they are “taking back what the devil stole” when really the false angel of light has them duped, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. All this has me thinking of Walter Hawkins and Sylvester. And some wonder why the fellas with the limp wrists always are in the choir loft…

    let’s not forget how he used and mistreated Vanessa Bell Armstrong before he got

    Say whaaaaat? Was he claiming to be a “pastor” of a church back then too? This is all news to me. Once upon a time I used to think his camp was a little less dirty than others. Used? Do you mean, what I think you mean? Mistreated, before getting married? So you do mean what I think you mean. This seems to be information that was known to some, but not me, so whatever you tell is just helping me see why he was really bad way before I started figuring out something was wrong. Doing a quick search I see people elude to JPK having a historically bad reputation, but nobody says much of what happened. I never knew any of this.

    I also remember him standing on a podium at a church in Dallas in the 90s and
    saying that God told him that this was his last album/project, and followed up
    with the CD “Strength” which had the song “I Bow Out” indicating that he was
    leaving the industry at God’s command.

    Yea, I’ve got that CD (and many others from when I used to purchase lots of Religious Industry material) and the lyrics for I Bow Out sure did make it seem he was leaving Industry side of things for good. I thought he was just going to do full time pastor work. Obviously it was just a promotional trick! Nothing but a pack of hymn peddlers I tell you, 2 Corinthians 2:17.

    …support of abortion (America has killed more than 50 million babies) and the fact
    that God is going to call for a reckoning.

    God sees this blood that is being shed around the world of the most innocent of lives, for nothing more than the convenience of man, while claiming to be doing babies a favor. That alone is enough to ensure the wrath of God on this world. Isaiah 59 is real.

    Come quickly Lord Jesus!

  16. SteelGator Says:

    I actually heard it on talk radio while running errands yesterday. I believe he said something like this in his book “The Audacity of Hope”. I have not read the book so if any one on this blog has, please let me know if this can be verified. Attached is a link that sheds more light on Obama the racist.

  17. IndependentConservative Says:

    Just wanted to note, that I’ve found JPK became a pastor well after getting married. But that information really does not matter given this latest stunt he’s pulled.

  18. IndependentConservative Says:

    Attached is a link that sheds more light on Obama the racist.

    That link you provided actually provides the proof I was asking you for. It says:

    “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream,” Obama wrote, “Malcolm’s discovery toward the end of his life, that some whites might live beside him as brothers in Islam, seemed to offer some hope of eventual reconciliation.”

    Not exactly what you said you heard on the radio, but the actual quote is troubling just the same.

  19. djenk23 Says:

    this is a bigger reach than Darko Milicic…if you want to call the man racist because of his church he belongs to, fine….where does is say that Obama believes that blacks and whites arent able to get along unless its under Islam?…we dont have to stoop to making up stories about what Obama is and what he isnt…there is more than enough factual stuff to make a decision not to vote for him…

  20. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well SteelGator heard it on talk radio 😆 .

    However, the statement that IS in Obama’s book:

    “Malcolm’s discovery toward the end of his life, that some whites might live beside him as brothers in Islam, seemed to offer some hope of eventual reconciliation.”

    Shows Obama looking to HOPE in something other than Christ. It’s not illogical to conclude that perhaps Obama feels that racial harmony can be found in the cult of Muhammad, although he did not make that explicit statement.

    Now we do know what Obama really did say. And what he said is that he saw some cult members getting along and that gave him hope for racial harmony.

    Racism is a SIN and SIN is not going away when you live in a SIN SICK WORLD. It comes with the deal. Hope is ONLY found in Christ and a real “Better Day” is what Christ gives.

    Having attended an HBCU, I learned really quick, that you can have everybody of the same race and STILL sinful hearts will create mess just as bad or worse than you see in a place with varied races of people.

  21. IndependentConservative Says:

    And of course we could get into the Arab Muslim racism against Blacks and STILL EXISTING ENSLAVEMENT OF BLACK AFRICANS that goes on in Islam. And lets not forget the enslavement of Christians. But I guess that would not give Obama any “hope”. Malcom X found a FALSE HOPE and Obama is a FALSE HOPE.

    I feel Obama wrote those words to pander to Black Americans who have made a sort of idol of Malcom X, another similar can of worms! Many Black people quote Malcolm X as if his words are scripture as if he was a man of God and honor every action he ever made. He’s in hell!

    If you ask me, Obama joined his race cult church as pandering too. He’s a politician, doing what politicians do. He does and says what he feels will help him achieve his next political goal in life.

  22. djenk23 Says:

    I just think Obama’s hope is in humanity….you can see it in all his stolen Bob the Builder slogans…i might be making a bit of a reach now but everytime i see Obama and his people going wild, chanting “can we do it? YES WE CAN!”, i think about the beginning of Genesis 11….

  23. SteelGator Says:

    That is how the guy paraphrased it and I paraphrased him. The actual quote I believe is in the book, but I am not going to spend my hard earned money on a work of a anti-Semitic socialist. I was shocked. I think the quote that was provided from Obama’s book shows he is a racist even though I can not find the other quote. Not to mention, the church he attends and his rubbing arms with Calypso Louie and other racist terrorists. What is up with Obama becoming friends with that terrorist that bombed the Pentagon back in the 1970s? Hanging out with racist terrorists is very troubling.

  24. IndependentConservative Says:

    djenk23 said:

    I just think Obama’s hope is in humanity….you can see it in all his stolen Bob the Builder slogans…i might be making a bit of a reach now but everytime i see Obama and his people going wild, chanting “can we do it? YES WE CAN!”, i think about the beginning of Genesis 11….

    You’re probably correct.

  25. DL Foster Says:

    I was trying to think of something real intelligent to say about this video. The best I could do was

    ugghhhh, how creepy.

    “Obama, he’s our man….”?

  26. GaryV Says:

    Can I just write in “Duncan Hunter” on the ballot?? because I can’t find a single candidate left that doesn’t make me throw up in my mouth a little.

  27. Albertadude Says:

    I have said it elsewhere and I say it again..I do not know how anyone that claims to be a Christian could ever vote for someone that supports partial birth abortion and the homo agenda as Obama does??? have 3 boneheads running but clearly Obama is the worse…and that is saying something when you have Hillary running also!

  28. GaryV Says:

    I couldn’t do it Albertadude……….just couldn’t live with myself if I voted for someone who supports genocide. Seems it won’t be long though before we’re faced with both final candidates from both parties supporting it. Then, I’ll just write in Ronald Reagan.

  29. rev_ak Says:

    Unfortunately, IC, America has chosen its candidates, and there isn’t one representing the so called “moral majority.” Unless God calls me (and I am laying out many fleeces) to do otherwise, I am not planning to vote…
    By the way, does anyone else out there realize that WE (as conservative christians) have played a major role in the Obamanon. Our hatred for Hillary and low excitement over “our” candidates has led to Republicans crossing over in large numbers to vote for Obama, not realizing that Hillary at least was beatable. Obama is not….
    One more thing…this may be a somewhat controversial view…I am convinced that Obama is a TYPE, not THE, but a TYPE of Antichrist. There are actually websites out there that give him a messianic status. I think the American public’s reaction to a politician like him shows me that the world is also ready for a leader of the same ilk….

  30. godlysoldier Says:

    Excellent Observation!

  31. greeneon Says:

    Based on my observation of the opinions of the comments and criticisms here.

    God’s word comes to mind…

    Proverbs 23:7

    For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

  32. DL Foster Says:

    Rev AK I have always believed that the chosen candidates reveal much about the moral temperature of the American people. Even moreso about the American church.

    I will not cast a vote for any of these wicked people. I refuse to vote by cessation “lesser of X evils”.

    They say vote your conscience. I will.
    Mine wont allow me to be a partaker in other men’s sins.

    IC, re: John Pee…
    He also attended and performed at Carlton Pearson’s Inclusion conference AFTER Pearson was declared a heretic.

  33. IndependentConservative Says:

    rev_ak, Yea you are correct in all you said.

    DL, You folks are making me WAY MORE disappointed in John P. Kee than I already was… Given what the rest of you knew about him, I probably was most surprised when I should have known it was coming.

  34. IndependentConservative Says:

    greeneon – Do you feel that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the ONLY means to salvation and that all other paths (Buddhism, Islam, etc.) lead to nothing but certain destruction?

  35. IndependentConservative Says:

    I just want to be sure since you are new here. This is why I’m asking some basic questions of you. So you feel Obama has people going to him that he really does not care for? Given your citation of Proverbs 23:7.

    You did not say much, so I’m just making sure we are seeing this the same.

  36. rev_ak Says:

    A follow up:
    I MIGHT be tempted to vote for McCain on a basis on SC judges. But he already proved that he doesn’t care so much about that when he engineered the “gang of 14.” So I guess not…
    DL, I hope you don’t have ay kind of dirt on Fred Hammond. The beginning of the song sounds a little like him in the bgv’s. PLEASE don’t let it be Fred!!!!
    greeneon, I didn’t understand your comment at all. But if you are an Obama apologist, I am sure your use of scripture will point out the division that is ripping Christianity apart. I would be more apt to say its ripping the sheep and the goats apart, or at least, separating the sheep from the sheeple…

  37. SteelGator Says:

    Rev_ak: IC and I have gone round and round about McCain. Supreme Court and the War on Islamofacists are the only reasons I am voting for McCain. He was part of the “gang of 14” but he also voted to confirm, Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts and the very conservative Judge Robert Bork.

    IC believes that Mclame, as he calls him, will fold and we will get judges like Harriet Meyers. Conversely, I hold out hope that conservative Christians can influence him to pick judges in the mold of Scalia, Roberts and Thomas.

    With Barrack and/or Hilldabeast, we know that they WILL appoint godless, evil judges that want to ensure that abortion on demand is the law of the land for the next 35 years.

  38. SteelGator Says:

    You should have a place to write in good old Duncan Hunter. In the past, I wrote in my father for Lieutenant Governor when I wrote in a primary loser for Governor during the general election.

  39. SteelGator Says:

    Ditto….It could have happened this year with Rudy.

  40. rev_ak Says:

    True, and that’s why I am partly on the fence. But do you think a weakened McCain without a majority in either house would be able to even get a Harriet Myers type judge in? Forget Miguel Estrada, Janice Rodgers-Brown, Bush hasn’t even attempted to nominate someone to the lower courts since the great defeat in ’06. Many christians I have talked to have said we have to toe the line for the Republicans. WHY? I saw this coming two years ago and resigned my position as a precinct chairman here in IN when all the fervor surrounded Rudy “mistress in the mayor’s mansion” Guliani. I am a christian BEFORE a republican, and what the party machine has put out there for the past several years has not represented MY values. I wish Dems would be the same way.(if the church of the Lord Jesus would stand up and vote the REAL issues,we wouldn’t be so confused that church folks could vote abortion, gay rights, etc) Why do we, as the children of God HAVE to vote for a republican because he’s a republican, when he would sell us out faster than Bush did? dms, don’t try to chime in, you sold out a long time ago!(Bush’s problems began when he turned his back on Israel, that’s what I mean by selling us out)I think if America gets caught up in the religeous fervor surrounding Obama, so be it. We need to pray for our nation, if any president does not change the current policy toward Israel, (forcing them to give up land to the same terrorists that we are fighting) America’s in trouble. If God convicts me to vote McCain, I will, but so far that is not happening. But I do agree with a lot of what you said…

  41. IndependentConservative Says:

    The way I see it, the issues with Israel and America started downhill NOT uphill when Jimmy Carter had them give up land. Sure it made some peace with Egypt, but it also made Israel give up land that had oil and now that they lost that resource the USA has been forced by that agreement to keep having to fund Israel rather than them doing for themselves. I think it would be better if the USA got out of much of it, because the USA only drags its self deeper into it with every effort. Israel was doing find defending its self before the USA felt the need to make more “peace agreements”.

  42. SteelGator Says:

    I concur with much that you have said. I also think even more important than the Presidency is the election of conservative House and Senate members. If Republicans can take back either house and pick up seats in the other, it may not matter whom the left leaning (including McCain) President is. These Republican members must be willing to filibuster and obstruct any and all moves by the left to surrender in Iraq, put a pro abortion judge on the Supreme Court. So, even for those of you that can not vote for McCain (this included you IC), please vote for godly men and women to Congress.

  43. DL Foster Says:

    Rev AK, I havent heard John Pee’s latest. I dont buy “gospel music” much anymore. But with all the rampant collaborations they dont I wouldnt doubt Fred in on da mike with him.

    I wont say anything about Fred Hammonds. Until he makes a song praising that magnificient light that is barack hussein obama, savior of the whole united states.

  44. IndependentConservative Says:

    I vote for who seems to be best in all the races including President 😉 . I just won’t be voting for the Democrat or Republican in the Presidential race.

    All I see are individual candidates on my ballot every election. That is how I vote, for the best individual based on what the Lord allows me to know and guide me towards. The D’s and R’s are not something I get caught up in much. Although I remain aware of what D’s and R’s do as a group.

  45. SteelGator Says:

    djenk23 reply on February 28th, 2008 at 4:20 pm :

    I just think Obama’s hope is in humanity….you can see it in all his stolen Bob the Builder slogans…i might be making a bit of a reach now but everytime i see Obama and his people going wild, chanting “can we do it? YES WE CAN!”, i think about the beginning of Genesis 11….

    I think his rallies look more like Hannah Montana….A bunch of brain dead juveniles that are blinded by stardom. Obama ought to go on American Idol. He would win without having to sing one note.

  46. IndependentConservative Says:

    I’ll say Fred Hammond like many others works with more pulpit pimps than you can shake a pimp stick at!

  47. SteelGator Says:

    Pimp Stick….LOL…OH MY….I just fell out of my chair.

  48. IndependentConservative Says:

    The fact is, the Religious Industry singers help enable the pimps.

    It’s all a big collaboration of pimp game and the singers are very much big players in it, Fred included. I could, but don’t talk about the singers much, given the vomit from the pimp passas makes all the rest possible.

    I’ve seen Fred when at Eddie Long’s club spewing Fast Eddie’s vomit doctrine all too many times. They all work hand in hand folks. The pimps help promote the singers by bring them in and the celebrity draw of the singers helps get more deluded people into the pimp’s club.

    I don’t care how many old CDs of Fred’s that I have or how well he can sing, he’s in the game right along side the pimps and should not be considered as anything but a songbird for pimps.

  49. IndependentConservative Says:

    I think his rallies look more like Hannah Montana…

    But WORSE. Hannah’s fans seem to remain on their feet and conscious during her shows, which can’t be said for the Obama shows.

  50. SteelGator Says:

    On another note, please look at the following links.

    Can you believe that this is how Obama plans to treat our military and protect our country? Pretty chilling.

    This is an article by my friend Gary Bauer. He makes some very good points. This gives me some more reasons to vote for McCain.

  51. SteelGator Says:

    What is up with the Obama campaign upholding the former cuban communist and terrorist.

    Gary Bauer wrote, “Although the Obama campaign issued a statement calling the display of Guevara’s portrait “inappropriate,” one cannot help but wonder what it is Che Guevara fans see in Obama that would compel them to volunteer for his presidential campaign.

    The Che Guevara incident is not a major scandal in itself. But when combined with a series of other incidents — including Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag lapel pin (which Obama called “a substitute for, I think, true patriotism.”), his curious refusal to place his hand on his heart during a recent public playing of the National Anthem and his wife’s assertion that before her husband’s recent success she has never felt proud of her country — some voters may have cause to question whether the Obamas are part of the “new class” that sees patriotism as old-fashioned.”

    People in this country have to be kidding. Voting for a guy that won’t put his hand over his heart but will display a communist – terrorist portrait in his office? What the heck are Americans thinking? Obama makes Hillary look like patriotic.

  52. IndependentConservative Says:

    Let’s keep in mind Obama did not place the flag of the EVIL communist killer Che Guevara up in that Texas office of HIS, but the fact his workers felt comfortable doing so shows the group that he aligns with regardless of how much he might deny it.

  53. IndependentConservative Says:

    It gives me no reasons to vote for McCain, but it does show how messed up Obama is.

    You do realize, that everything mentioned there that we disagree with Obama on, his base cheers for.

  54. SteelGator Says:

    I know…His base is nuts….Conservatives are losing ground. That is why McCain and Obama are the main candidates from the two major parties. The majority of Americans are godless, self absorbed, ignorant masses that want the government do everything for them from cradle to grave. How a great nation can rise and fall in 200 + years is what is amazing to me. I just don’t know why folks would put faith in this so called “great black hope”. To me, Obama is nothing more than a better looking, better spoken communist leaning version of David Duke.

    Sometimes what comes around goes around. Word has it that liberal Hispanic leaders in Texas and Florida are encouraging Hispanics not to vote for Obama. They say that they have stood with blacks on many issues but when the Hispanics need the help from blacks, they don’t get the support they need. (I don’t know if this is true or not, but this is what they have said.) Thus, these so called Hispanic leaders say they have some bridges that need to be repaired and until they are, they (Hispanic Americans) will not vote for a black Presidential candidate.

    Don’t get me wrong. Racism is a sin and totally disgusting. However, for a racist (Obama) to get beat because other folks (Hispanics) won’t vote for him because of his race is ironic.

  55. SteelGator Says:

    Good point IC….Obama did gravitate to communist and Marxist professors at his Ivy League law school. Thus, evil communists supporting Obama should not be a surprise. Birds of a feather.

  56. IndependentConservative Says:

    It’s not ironic at all.

    It was very much expected that Hillary would get the Hispanic vote for the most part.

    And if you want to know how Black/Hispanic relations are going. Take a look at Los Angeles: Hispanic Gang in ‘All-America City’ Targets Blacks.

  57. IndependentConservative Says:

    It’s also why he moved to Chicago in the first place, retracing the steps of one of his communist mentors!

  58. godlysoldier Says:

    The more info that’s revealed on this site concerning Obama, the more I’m glad that consciously I CAN NOT and WILL NOT vote for him.
    Keep up the informative work my brothers!

  59. IndependentConservative Says:

    Obama’s Communist Mentor

  60. healtheland Says:

    IC: Now you know that I have been opposing Barack HUSSEIN Obama on Jesus Christology ever since it was Heal The Land With Spiritual Warfare 🙂

    But I am not convinced that a mixed race fellow choosing his black half over his white half makes him a racist. And if anyone were to make that case, the writer of that “America’s enemies” site would be the last one to do so. That guy needs Jesus Christ every bit as much as Barack HUSSEIN Obama does. You remember the hip – hop 90s, and how it came out of the black nationalist 60s and 70s. Which group of whites hated the black nationalists the most? The segregationists! What those people wanted more than anything else in the world was for blacks to want to be accepted by them so they would have the privilege of telling us “Now you’re a credit to your race, but you will never be one of us, and you will just have to live with that.” Nothing made those folks madder than the black nationalists saying “Who needs your acceptance? We are doing fine over here by ourselves!” Even if Barack HUSSEIN Obama had chosen his white family over his black one, this fellow would have still seen him as black, and would have found him useful only as someone who confirmed the superiority of white culture by rejecting the black one … another Tiger Woods, Ward Connerly, porn watching sexual harassing Opus Dei Clarence Thomas, etc. Speaking of Tiger Woods, notice that the same conservatives that love him to death and talk about him night and day have no use for the Williams sisters! Hmmm …

    Even had Barack HUSSEIN Obama changed his name to Chad Skip O’Malley, I bet the guy who runs that website still wouldn’t have wanted him to marry his daughter. He is no different from any of those other conservatives that are apoplectic over Obama’s ties to Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farrakhan, but just loved themselves some Mormon Mitt Romney whose white Mormon god calls us negroes the cursed seed of Ham. Anybody that supported the champion of the racist Mormon cult Romney while bashing Obama over his black nationalism is a hypocrite and probably a racist.

  61. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well brother, you know I try and keep my sentiment consistent across the board.

    I have not said that Obama is a racist, we just have lots of circumstantial evidence and if Amos 3:3 holds any truth it can’t all be bogus.

    Ever since I posted about Obama’s RACIST PASTOR I’ve maintained a leery eye regarding Obama concerning the issue of race. And that was before any information about linkage to Farra-the-Con came to light. And that linkage was there before Farra-the-Con spoke favorably of Obama publicly.

    So this to me is like the White politician who has ties to all the A-typical White racists all over his record, but claims he denounces them and is not a racist himself. I don’t buy that from a White politician who pulls the same maneuvers, so I won’t buy it from Obama either. Keep in mind, I didn’t call Obama a racist, I’m just aware he’s a man I’ll continue to avoid and warn others about.

  62. Albertadude Says:

    Obama a racist?? Not really…a complete idiot, one world worshipper, radical socialist liberal…..we do not have to make up things about Obama…the man is dangerous with what we know about him…

    Granted his ‘pastor’ is a racist and an anti christ…on that their is no question but it isn’t fair to tar all because of our associations!

  63. IndependentConservative Says:

    Honestly, I won’t speak against a single White person that calls Barack Hussein Obama Jr. a racist.

    Because ANY White man that dared be member of a group that claims to be a church doing in the name of White Pride what Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. does in the name of Blackness and being endorsed by the KKK as Obama was spoken of favorably by Farra-the-Con and having KKK members on his payroll as Obama has done with some NOI members. Very few Blacks would object to that White man being called a racist, no matter how vehemently he denied the charge.

  64. IndependentConservative Says:

    In fact, if a White man did the things I mentioned, I’d probably call him racist right along with others who would. So perhaps I’m showing partiality in the fact I have not yet called Barack Hussein Obama Jr. a racist.

    Once a man accepts membership in and church leadership from a man who is clearly a cult racist, it’s the people speaking against those saying Obama is a racist who need to bring more to bear. In their defense of him against that charge. I say if he were White in the scenario I noted, all saying don’t call him racist would be silent, if not on the “he’s a racist” bandwagon too.

    So I’m going to let every White person that wants to call Obama a racist to do so with no debate from me.

    Most Whites see through the double-standard that is often played in cases such as this. Even if you who speak against the charge don’t realize the double-standard is there and have the best of intentions.

  65. greeneon Says:

    You’re on point! Based on my observation it appears that most of the comments here have a one sided political party affiliation. As a Christian, I tend to be more of an independent. I would not call myself an Obama apologist. I will support the candidate who is least likely to lie to me, once they are in the elected office. One who strong in their convictions and comes closest to my Christian belief. I try to look for the fruits of God’s Spirit within them. As a Christian I am told that you will now them by their fruits. Hopefully, the next Pharaoh will have a Joseph to go to. This one we currently have apparently didn’t.

  66. greeneon Says:

    I would say that MY salvation IS dependent on MY faith in Christ as my Lord. I can’t speak on what others believe.

    To me what’s in the heart of a man,begin to produce in his thoughts and those thoughts come out of his mouth as views and from the views expressed here, I see a lot of hating going on..

  67. IndependentConservative Says:

    When I read Proverbs 23, it is apparent that verse 7 was speaking about people such as politicians. But if verse 7 is taken out of its context in that chapter someone might misconstrue it to mean something it does not. You claim there is “hating” going on here, but you provided scripture that supports our view although you might not know it.

    If you feel there is “hating” going on here, perhaps you should have registered to comment elsewhere. Because here men that claim the Lord’s name and endorse abomination and baby murder are not taken lightly. Neither are people who idolize them in song.

  68. IndependentConservative Says:

    As to what OTHERS believe, I say Acts 4:12 proves those paths to all be false and anti-Christ.

  69. Albertadude Says:

    You have a point there IC to be sure….Mmmm…well..I guess I really am not aware of how bad this church is that Obama goes to???? Wow…

    But again…I personally havn’t ever heard of any racist statements from Obama before…….though it would be nice if he were to repudiate the things coming from his church!?

    Hopefully more Americans…Black and White and all other colors, will become aware of this particular situation and call Obama to account!

    I wish I could vote against him but alas, I am a Western Canadian and we have our own liberal morons up here ruining our country…sigh….

    It’s going just like Revelations said it would go isn’t it?? I cannot believe how evil our times are and how evil we are getting…

    If we cannot recognize the evil that Obama brings to the table as a Body of Believers…..then what is going to happen when the anti christ appears who will be far more deceptive and cunning???

  70. IndependentConservative Says:

    Hope you’ve seen my post: Barack Hussein Obama’s Black Supremacist Idolater Pastor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. I break down much of what they are about there.

    I can say, that once upon a time I was trying to be as “pro-Black” as possible in one of my many prior states of being distracted by various sorts of delusion, which the Lord allowed so I could tell others. And I can tell you, even at the height of it, when I was seriously considering some of the words by people like Farra-the-Con (not trying to be a Muslim, but deluded and feeling as a Christian I might be able to learn a few things from him and be able to avoid other bad parts, as if I could get some good from him) and listening to him on the radio every week, along with an MLK Jr. sermon every week and listen to various Malcolm X (aka El Hajj Malik El Shabazz) speeches often and so on. Even when I was into all of that, even then I would see church assemblies like those of Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and feel they were going a little too far. Now I feel they are way off into insanity, but back then I tried to be more accommodating of such heresy.

    I also have a post titled: Why Black History Month Does Not Belong in the Church you might want to read over.

    Really, while many Blacks don’t admit it, they’ve been turning “Black Church” into a “Black Cult”!

    I don’t speak about this stuff as some outsider who never experienced it. I used to run closer to all those race cults! Till the Lord delivered me from such. I used to attend their meetings and while I would not formally “join” I’ve seen Farra-the-Con speak in person more than once and attended supposedly Christian “pro-Black” garbage also.

    There was a time I looked at guys like Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and while I would not actually “join” a spot like his, I’d be saying “oh that brother is deeeep”. I was one sad deluded soul God granted mercy!

  71. IndependentConservative Says:

    And I forgot to mention, yes the prophesies of scripture are coming on us in most incredible ways.

  72. SteelGator Says:

    Thanks IC: I think you explained it very well. There are some glaring double standards when it comes to race and racism. Guilt ridden white liberals and opportunistic black leaders have created this double standard and used it effectively to promote their “socialist” agenda. Liberals always think the “ends” justify the “means”. This is why liberals want the division of race and the division of socio-economic class. Class and race warfare keep the Big Government leftists in power because they always promise a cure via a government program. Remember when liberal Senator Byrd from W. Virginia said the “N” word. Liberal and black leaders did not say anything. They just looked the other way, but when a conservative like Trent Lott praises old man Strom Thurmond on his 100 B-day, the liberals and blacks ask for Senator Lott’s head on a platter. The double standard is there and LIBERALS are the ones that cashing in on it.

    Sorry to get off topic but in my view, Obama is a racist. Just like the whites that sat by and watched blacks berated by their racist preachers and/or politicians, they did not denounce it. The same is applies to Obama. He might not have said the racist comments but he stands by and supports the racists that do.

  73. SteelGator Says:


    Your statements show that you tend to lean to the left rather than be an independent. If you want to support a candidate that is least likely to lie to you, then you would vote for Hitler then, right? He did not lie to the masses. He made it perfectly clear he wanted a “perfect race” and wanted to exterminate the Jews.

    How do you know when a politician is lying? His/Her lips are moving.

    It sounds like you are leaning toward Barrack Hussein Obama? How can his views be the closest to your Christian beliefs. Obama supports the slaughter of innocent children. He belongs to a racist church. He still upholds Islam (a false pagan cult) as a vital part of his life. Anyone that supports these ideals surely is not showing Biblical fruits of the Spirit that you are looking for.

  74. healtheland Says:


    “This is why liberals want the division of race and the division of socio-economic class. Class and race warfare keep the Big Government leftists in power because they always promise a cure via a government program.”

    So is it your position that class and race warfare would not exist but for liberal tactics? Before you answer, please remember that a great many churches practiced segregation until recently. As a matter of fact, had a piece about how as a pastor Mike Huckabee had to beg, pander to, and finally coerce his congregation into allowing a black man that had gotten saved after hearing Huckabee’s radio broadcast come to their church and be baptized. The year this took place? 1984. The Southern Baptist Convention only formally fully renounced racism in 1995, and when they did so not a few members got angry, picked up, and left. When did Barack HUSSEIN Obama first get elected to office again? Hmmm … 1996.

    My point? If a Christian doesn’t want a black person to come to his church with him, then there is a great chance that the same Christian will not approve a loan for a black person (especially to buy a home in his neighborhood), hire/promote/pay/treat fairly a black person in the workplace, patronize a black person’s business (or even patronize a business that had “too many” black people working there or black people in positions of authority), etc. And if Christians were behaving this way not 15 years ago, how much worse were the unsaved behaving? And here’s the kicker: how much better can things really get in 15 years? After all, those folks that left the Southern Baptist Convention over their official rejection of racism … I wonder where they go to church now. I wonder how many of them are bankers, realtors, workplace managers, policemen, etc. Hmmm …

    Look, I openly admit that a lot of black people act in a way that causes them to be manipulated by the forces of the anti – Christ. But in order to deal with it honestly and effectively so as to open people’s eyes and convince them to change, we have to acknowledge that there is a REASON why these people act this way.

  75. IndependentConservative Says:

    I think the response to former Republican US Senator from Virginia George Felix Allen’s “Macaca” comment really exposes the double standard big time.

    I was not a fan of Trent Lott’s even before his comment and I won’t get into the history of it all, but his statement is consistent with many of his own affiliations and even his keep sakes, including the desk he works on. There was good reason to be ticked at him for what he said.

    The response to George Allen’s statement versus the non-response and even OBAMA supporting Robert Byrd is stunning. Politics is known for making strange bedfellows.

    But back to my “if he was White” comparison. Imagine if the White politician’s “White Pride” church gave an award to the head of the KKK? And the White politician remained a member while saying they themselves are not a racist. I suspect any Black that would not call that White politician a racist would never be found, because they’d be afraid if they spoke up that they might be beaten.

  76. SteelGator Says:

    No…my point is racism occurs because of sin, PERIOD. Racism from black to white or white to black is the same….Sin!! Obama’s church does not want whites to attend. Just like David Duke’s church probably does not want nor let blacks attend.

    As for liberalism, much of it has caused and still breeds racism and socio-economic divides. Some of the most racist parts of the country are in liberal meccas (i.e. Boston , L.A., Chicago, and San Fran). The liberal social programs (even though on the surface look like they are helping minorities and lower classes) in fact, keep generations of minorities and lower economic classes on the dole and dependent on government. This keeps them economically inferior and many do not have the ability to financially or otherwise to get out of the ghetto and/or projects. Liberalism / Socialism wants to keep the masses down and keep them dependent on government for everything. They want to kill the spirit of individualism, freedom and self reliance. A way to ensure this continues is to divide and conquer. Keep racial divides alive. Keep economic divides alive. Keep preaching “gloom and doom”. Keep telling minorities and lower classes that they can not achieve, that they can not rise above on their own. Keep telling them that they need the government to help them. Just like the “bread and circuses” of Rome.

    You will also recall that it was the liberal Democratic party that did not want the “Civil Rights Legislation of 1964.” It was LBJ that had to get help from conservative Christian Republicans to get this legislation passed in the Congress. If it was up to the majority of Democrats (who make a living saying they are for the poor and minorities), this civil rights bill would have never been passed. Al Gore’s dad voted against it. Bill Clinton’s mentor Senator Fulbright voted against it. It is the democrats and liberals that talk a very good game, but when the rubber meets the road, they want to hold minorities and the economically challenged down.

    I am in no way saying that Republicans are saints. However, the oppression of minorities from the civil war to current day have been encouraged and carried out mostly by the two faced Democrats. Many of these two faced politicians are black leaders that once they get power they want to keep their people down.

    Remember when Augusta voted to allow Tiger Woods to play….I can name a dozen country clubs in the upper north east that won’t let ANY minorities in. 90% of their membership is by the liberal elites like the Kennedys, Bidens, and other big name liberal Democrats.

  77. SteelGator Says:

    IC: Your George Allen example is much better than the Lott one.

  78. SteelGator Says:


    “My point? If a Christian doesn’t want a black person to come to his church with him, then there is a great chance that the same Christian will not approve a loan for a black person (especially to buy a home in his neighborhood), hire/promote/pay/treat fairly a black person in the workplace, patronize a black person’s business (or even patronize a business that had “too many” black people working there or black people in positions of authority), etc. And if Christians were behaving this way not 15 years ago, how much worse were the unsaved behaving? And here’s the kicker: how much better can things really get in 15 years? After all, those folks that left the Southern Baptist Convention over their official rejection of racism … I wonder where they go to church now. I wonder how many of them are bankers, realtors, workplace managers, policemen, etc. Hmmm ”

    Personally, I would have to question if these “white folks” are really even Christians. You call them Christians but if they are really racist, this does not line up the Bible or a personal relationship with Jesus. They may call themselves Christians but we shall know them by their fruits.

    P.S. I am a white guy that have had black clients not want to do business with me because I am white. In fact, they have told me so. Racists come in all shapes, colors and sizes.

  79. SteelGator Says:

    Obama on homosexuality……

    Yesterday, Obama told a gathering in Ohio, “I think that it [same-sex “marriage”] is a legal right that they should have that is recognized by the state. If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount, which I think is, in my mind, for my faith, more central than an obscure passage in Romans.”

    Just ignore Romans 1 my friends……Oprah’s boy Obama said so.

  80. healtheland Says:


    Not necessarily disagreeing with what you said. I am fully aware that racists come in all colors, for I was not so long ago a rabid Louis Farrakhan supporting black racist sinner myself! I just wanted to point out that the left has been able to exploit the race issue because the race issue exists in the first place. For instance, “However, the oppression of minorities from the civil war to current day have been encouraged and carried out mostly by the two faced Democrats.” You speak as if there weren’t people voting those Democrats in power? Take George Wallace, former Alabama governor and Presidential candidate. Early in his career he actually supported integration. He lost. He then remade himself as the segregationist’s segregationist and the rest was history. (A little known fact is that even as he was doing his segregationist race – baiting rhetoric towards blacks, as governor he did whatever he could to help blacks that he could get away with without his white supporters knowing about it.) And Barry Goldwater ran for president on the platform of overturning the very same civil rights laws that the Republicans passed a few years earlier. The guy who introduced him at the GOP convention? Ronald Reagan, who upon becoming President appointed Ed Meese who made a priority attacking those same laws as if he didn’t have more important things to worry about (i.e. abortion and drugs).

    It comes down to the fact that both political parties are of the world. And an honest look at both political ideologies (conservative, liberal) neither is truly Biblical. (I know that I place myself at risk by making that statement on INDEPENDENTCONSERVATIVE‘S site, but he knows where I am coming from I hope!) Both conservatives and liberals, Democrats and Republicans, have a tendency to see things as they wish them to be rather than how they really are. Why? Because they all have a stake in the outcome that prevents them from being truly honest. So the challenge is being able to declare “I got no dog in that hunt!” and looking at all issues from an unvarnished Biblical perspective.

    So politicians, as a general rule, are primarily concerned with retaining power for themselves and their ideology. GOPers pushed the Civil Rights bill through, so you have to ask: what was their real agenda? How did they benefit from it? Now I seem to recall that it was the Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party that was primarily responsible for the passage of the civil rights bills. Now I just happen to be one of the conspiracy types, so I am of the strong conviction that pretty much anything the international banker Rockefellers are behind, there is an agenda that is not of Jesus Christ.

    I will say this: the George H. W. Bush administration worked with the Congressional Black Caucus to advance an aggressive interpretation of the Voting Rights Act where his Justice Department pressured state legislatures to create as many majority black U. S. Congressional districts as possible in the early 90s. Because George H. W. Bush was known as a liberal Rockefeller Republican in that he supported affirmative action (and abortion and government regulation) the U.S. Black Caucus figured that they could trust him. Well, the Black Caucus got what they wanted, which was a substantial increase in blacks elected to the U. S. Congress. But George H. W. Bush got what he wanted, which was by placing all of the Democratic voters into their own districts, it had the effect of gerrymandering a bunch of conservative districts that voted Republican after Clinton’s tax increase, gun control bill, HillaryCare, etc.!

    And then George W. Bush gets elected by promising to uplift blacks using government tax dollars to fund vouchers and faith – based programs. Of course, in order to facilitate it, he needed regulatory and legal changes to build on what John Ashcroft (and Bill Clinton!) pushed through in that welfare reform bill. Bush got most of them, including a critical decision from the Supreme Court. But the more you study that issue, the more you realize that the whole school voucher and faith – based program thing is a trick designed to significantly increase the political and economic power of the Roman Catholic Church in this country. See, a lot of the rules prohibiting these things in the first place were adopted specifically to prevent Rome from becoming the state church and America a feudal state of the Vatican. That was why so many of the Roman Catholic “conservatives” were behind Mitt Romney (and why is it OK to back a Mormon and not someone who is merely associated with Louis Farrakhan?): they knew that they could use him to get a lot more of their agenda through than anyone else just like he was able to change a bunch of regulations allowing the Roman Catholic Church to receive a ton of money and provide a lot of state services in Massachusetts. That was why the Vatican cons – excuse me neocons – were doing all they could to cover up and apologize for Romney’s liberal record on abortion, homosexuality, gun control, immigration, and taxes … honestly the guy wasn’t much different from Rudy Giuliani and is probably to the left of John McCain, who at least has his conservative pre – 2000 voting record to fall back on.

    So truthfully, I think that it is all a scam and a game that either deceives Christians or gets them to compromise. Take me, for instance. I voted for George W. Bush TWICE despite knowing full well that A) Bush intended to attack Iraq before he was even elected, and I know this because it was all they were talking about on conservative talk radio and in the conservative magazines, B) Bush is pro – homosexual (used to party with them at Harvard and Yale big time), C) Bush is pro – abortion, and D) the fellow is a member of the occult secret society Skulls and Bones. It seems that political ideology has been doing that to a lot of good Christians ever since Eusebius came up with “official theology” to justify the Roman empire taking over the church in the days of Constantine, and “Christendom” (the official or unofficial combination of an institutional church and a political state which may or may not be a state, and is also supported by other things i.e. private enterprise and the social structure … feudalism was GREAT for the interests of the Roman Catholic Church!) was born.

  81. IndependentConservative Says:

    There is a link to audio of Obama saying that here: Obama: Sermon on Mount Justifies Same-Sex Unions

    Obama like many other heretics plays a game of acting as if all scripture is not of equal weight. And how does the Sermon on the Mount give a Christian justification for facilitating an abomination? Homosexuals were being STONED when Christ walked the earth in flesh and we have no record of Him going to prevent a homosexual from being stoned. Not that I feel we should stone homosexuals, but does Obama feel the Sermon on the Mount justifies allowing murder of babies in the womb too?

  82. IndependentConservative Says:

    And an honest look at both political ideologies (conservative, liberal) neither is truly Biblical. (I know that I place myself at risk by making that statement on INDEPENDENTCONSERVATIVE‘S site, but he knows where I am coming from I hope!)

    I do, as I hope you know where I’m coming from in my own use of this blog’s name.

    Well, the Black Caucus got what they wanted, which was a substantial increase in blacks elected to the U. S. Congress.


    (and why is it OK to back a Mormon and not someone who is merely associated with Louis Farrakhan?):

    I’m just noting this quote to give SteelGator a warning. SteelGator, TRUST ME, you don’t want to touch that statement made by Healtheland. Just because you’re a brother I’m letting you know in advance that my brother Healtheland is setting you up for a pouncing like you’d never believe (that I’m sure he’ll execute to precision like a surgeon with a VERY sharp blade) if you dare try and justify support for Mitt is somehow less racist than affiliation with Farra-the-Con. I’ve given you fair warning. I could have gone down this road with you regarding Orrin Hatch, but I cut you some slack, but now you’re being baited for a thumping you don’t want, trust me.

    the Vatican cons – excuse me neocons

    😆 !!!

  83. SteelGator Says:

    healtheland said……

    George W. Bush TWICE despite knowing full well that A) Bush intended to attack Iraq before he was even elected, and I know this because it was all they were talking about on conservative talk radio and in the conservative magazines, B) Bush is pro – homosexual (used to party with them at Harvard and Yale big time), C) Bush is pro – abortion, and D) the fellow is a member of the occult secret society Skulls and Bones.

    I was fooled by GWB as well. He may have well wanted to attack Iraq before 9/11 to finish off Daddy’s war, but Clinton also said WMDs were there and Saddam was a problem. Heck, even the anti-American UN knew Saddam needed to be taken out. Per the UN resolution, Bush and Clinton had the authorization to go into Iraq. Clinton should have but he was too busy committing adultery and perjury.
    I have never seen him be pro-homosexual in any of his policies so I am not sure about that.
    Being Pro – Abortion is a stretch. He in fact signed into law the ban on partial birth abortion…you need to enlighten me as why you think he is pro-abortion.
    Skull and Bones is bad. Kerry was/is a member. Dan Rather (who hates Bush) is a member but they all work together for one thing…..the New World Order.

    As for Calypso Louie and Mitt, I guess I never saw a correlation. Please educate me on this.

  84. IndependentConservative Says:

    As for Calypso Louie and Mitt, I guess I never saw a correlation. Please educate me on this.

    We’ll just let you start here:

    Mormonism & The Negro Part 1 of 2 with Dr. Walter Martin

    Mormonism & The Negro Part 2 of 2 with Dr. Walter Martin

    And you have to understand something. Mormons need to do MORE than simply act like they got a “new revelation” when it’s convenient. What they REFUSE to do is ever admit one of their so-called “prophets” is WRONG. Because if they fully admit one of their so-called “prophets” is WRONG, they know that makes them a FALSE PROPHET. It would totally break the continuity of their lies.

    I’m sure Healtheland can (and might) give you a bunch more and I could too, but for now we’ll let you start with that.

  85. SteelGator Says:

    Good sermons and very eye opening for me.

    As for Dr. Martin, it looks like he knows his stuff when it comes to some cults and Mormonism.

    However, it looks like a ton of controversies plagued his ministry.

    From three marriages to considering “Seventh Day Adventists” as evangelicals. Seventh Day Adventists are a “cult”. Dr. Martin did not believe this. He also did not consider the Christian Scientists to be a “cult”.

    You can find out more about this guy and his selective calling out of “cults” at the following links.

  86. IndependentConservative Says:

    SteelGator, yes I was aware Dr. Martin’s had his flaws and his detractors make strong effort to highlight those, because he exposed so many cults. He often spent a portion of his time debunking false claims about himself in addition to exposing cults, but just the same he did have his own issues. That first link you provided is from LightPlanet, which is a rather Universalist site and they categorize Mormonism and other cults as “Christianity”. They have less discernment than Dr. Martin who was wrong about a couple of cults, but they’re tossing a whole load in wrongly. They teach about cults like Islam and others. So they probably are not in agreement with even the things Dr. Martin got right. And in the overall majority of his teaching Dr. Martin was right.

    On Mormonism Dr. Martin was 100% on target. And to this day you won’t find the Mormon leadership claiming any of those racists were false prophets who received those lying “revelations” from Satan. They believe and teach every one of those racist liars was a “prophet” of God. While they follow a false god.

    But there is more, I told you that was just for starters 🙂 .

    Check out the post The Cult of Joseph Smith Junior (Mormonism/LDS) Covers for its Superstar!. The video is no longer available. The YouTubber who was exposing many issues in Mormonism (chimyron) had his account suspended since the Mormons could cry “copyright violation” regarding stuff he was posting. But the post has a link to details on what is most pertinent. The Mormon cult’s head man, the one they most revere, had a Black female “servant”, that the cult has not just claimed serves him into eternity, they do the process of dedicating her to him in celebration continually!

    And when you’re done with that, I can give you more, lots more. You’ve only been given some warm up materials.

  87. greeneon Says:

    IC, I agree with you as far as those who follow another path.
    To clarify. I was actually trying to say that I don’t want to be
    judgemental of those who do. That is God’s job. I only to believe, TRUST and
    do what HE tells me. Hopefully, those who see HIM in me will change thier
    direction and follow me as I follow Christ.

    Murder is murder from abortions to life lost in War. Man should not take any life
    which God views as precious. My view of murder is not just limited to abortion.
    So there is a lot for me to take into consideration in my assessment of a candidate.
    They all going advocate some form of murder.

  88. IndependentConservative Says:

    So the over 6 million abortions IN AMERICA ALONE since 2003 carry the same weight in your view as the far lower number who died in war since that time? Keeping in mind those killed by abortion were innocent blood for certain, while with some killed in war we can’t affirm all were innocent.

    I think the prudent course of action is to take notice of the most massive shedding of innocent blood. Which is the abortion number. Which dwarfs all deaths from all wars during our lifetime.

    If you’re considering Obama, consider that Obama really is NOT your man if you happen to want an immediate pull out from Iraq. And I’ll tell you something else, he’s said statements several times over that indicate he’d go into Iran too. (And you know Hillary has made it known she is ready to pick up that phone at 3AM and drop a bomb, although she didn’t mention the bomb.)

    It was Dennis Kucinich who best exposed Obama.

    South Carolina Democratic debate transcript

    Kucinich: My good friend, Senator Obama, that’s a very provocative statement. You previously said that all options are on the table with respect to Iran.

    And I think that it’s important for people to reflect on the real meaning of that, that you’re setting the stage for another war.

    I think it’s important that we move away from global warming and global warring. And the connection is oil. We’re in Iraq for oil. We’re looking at attacking Iran for oil.

    And until we change our international policies, which quit using war as an instrument of policy…

    Many don’t notice, because they REALLY want Obama to be something he’s not, a pacifist. His statements ride both sides of the fence and he’s simply playing his supporters. He’s not going to be rushing troops out of Iraq, but he’s committed to keeping “all options on the table” regarding Iran, while he claims a war with Iran would be a mistake. See the double talk? All options INCLUDES WAR and he’s saying it would be a mistake at the same time. Just so when he may decide to attack Iran if he were President, he can say “well I said all options were on the table”, it’s the same thing Hillary Clinton is saying and almost the same as Bush has been saying.

    You should be wondering why Dick Cheney (Obama’s 8th cousin) is a former CFR leader and Obama is a member of the same organization and Obama’s wife is on the Chicago CFR board of directors and John McCain and Hillary Clinton are also all members of the CFR, the Council on Foreign Relations.

    Just how could people that try to give the impression that they are so opposite of each other all be members of the same globalist group and actually all be saying the same thing regarding international policy, just with varied nuances? All of them are eying up Iran, all of them will keep the nations borders open and all of them will keep trade policies as they are regardless of how much they deny it. (As we’ve already seen Obama be exposed regarding NAFTA.)

    I say Amos 3:3 should be considered. Because behind closed doors, they are in agreement to a greater degree than many realize.

  89. greeneon Says:

    Steelheart, I mean Gator.

    If it is satisfying for you. You can take my views and associated them to any segment of the political spectrum you wish. But, I would prefer to say that my leanings are onto God. I seek God’s word to see what he says and not by the understanding, and propaganda proposed by some political pundit or the views of some analyst. I am a truth seeker relying on God to lead me. Who are you being led by? The views of Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Ann Coulter.
    Hatemongers all of them.

    Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you wish. I’ll accept it. This way I know my heart still pumps blood and is made of flesh.

    How do I know them? By their fruit and the Spirit he gave me. To be honest, at this point, I don’t know who I’ll vote for. But, I will have to make a decision when it comes down to the final two and hoping that God leads me to the right choice.

    My hope is that you be lead by his Spirit. Also.

    Grace, Peace & Love to you.

  90. greeneon Says:

    Interesting. Your points cause me to look deeper. I’ll be checking this out. I’ve always felt that the issues were bigger than any party affiliation. I appreciate your biblical reference. Thanks for revealing the truth.

  91. IndependentConservative Says:

    Pardon the interruption.

    Greeneon, you said something that concerns me.

    But, I will have to make a decision when it comes down to the final two and hoping that God leads me to the right choice.

    Did God tell you that you had to do this? What scripture affirms it? Why do you feel you “have to” vote for either of “2”?

    First, no scripture says you have to at all.

    Second, even if you do vote, more than 2 people will be running. Or do you feel you’ve got to vote for a person that one of those “analysts” tells you has a chance of winning?

    I’m just wondering when godly decisions “had to” match popular opinion?

  92. SteelGator Says:


    I follow God’s will as well, and I am not trying to be mean. I just don’t see how if you are following God’s will and following his word that you could vote for anyone that supports the “slaughter of innocent children” via abortion. I am a conservative, but I could not vote for Giuliani if he was the nominee nor Hilldabeast nor that racist Obama. All three of them support the murder of innocent children.

    Limbaugh is a pretty good entertainer, but I would hardly call him a conservative leader. He is a man in love with money as far as I can see. O’Reilly is not even a conservative. He is a liberal that just spouts the conservative line to make money. Hannity, he is right on most of the time, but he is a member of the Catholic cult. Ann is another “big mouth” that is trying to cash in on the popularity of conservative minded entertainment. She is hardly a true conservative. She used to date Bill Maher, so what does that tell you? See, I can and will criticize so called conservatives. Now it is your turn.

    Do you follow Al Franken? This pro homo, pro abortion, hatemonger of the left. How about Bill “secular humanist” Maher, he said he would like to see V.P. Cheney dead? Is he your leader? How about John “I’m not funny” Stewart? Maybe, he tickles your ears? We can then talk about ALL the main stream media that has socialist leanings for decades. Do you follow their commands? How about the New “we make up lies and print them as truths” York times? Do you supplement your Bible with this paper? Can you disassociate yourself with these clowns?

    Anyway, economic issues, international issues, war against Islamofacists can all be debated by left and right. I see both sides of the political spectrum. However, anyone that can not see that killing unborn babies is an abomination, I would have to question their faith. One can not be following God’s Word and say God supports the murder of the “least of theses”. What are your thoughts on this?

    We may just have to disagree on some things, but hopefully, we can agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and God’s way is the only way.

  93. SteelGator Says:

    Good points IC.

    The Bible does show that God endorses some wars (thus the killing of his enemy) so I think it is a stretch to associate death in war with death from abortion. I do understand where greeneon is coming from the old argument that murder is murder, but God did instruct the “Children of Israel” to attack and kill their enemies.

    Just to be clear, what is your stance on abortion, greeneon?

    P.S….I will not attack you for your opinion.

  94. healtheland Says:


    It comes down to this. The anti – Christ system in this country that is quickly using politics, media, sports, business, education, entertainment, RELIGION, etc. to deceive the whole nation continually tries to put you in a position where you are going to have to make a false choice, to try to pick from among the lesser of two evils. Well, if you do that, evil still wins, and if you enable evil it will be laid to your charge. I have started challenging people to choose between communism and fascism, Hitler and Stalin. To the extent that anyone will take my challenge, the liberals generally choose Stalin, and the conservatives generally choose Hitler. Why? Secular brainwashing. Now I agree that abortion is a greater evil than unjust war. I would even propose that homosexual marriage, the mainstreaming of pornography, and teaching evolution are greater evils than unjust war. But unjust war is still evil, and so are wicked corporations and unjust economic policies (I do not support the government taking from the rich and giving to the poor through taxation and social programs, but if anything the government taking from the middle class and giving to the rich and big corporations through corporate welfare and some of these other schemes is even worse).

    After spending 6 years of supporting the Clinton administration’s evil followed by spending 8 years of supporting the evil of the Republican Congress and the Bush administration (I was actually a huge fan of Trent Lott because I bought into his professions of having a strong Christian faith, turns out the guy is a FREEMASON), I have just decided that the best way to go is to be anti – evil no matter where the evil comes from, with the Bible being the sole judge of what is evil and what is good.

    I honestly think that in order to be effective at doing that, it takes a great bit of deprogramming the worldly thinking that a lot of people pick up from politics and culture. Why? Because so many of us are willing to interpret the Bible through our political and cultural beliefs. I have to tell you, I had to deprogram myself out of that black nationalist Louis Farrakhan nonsense that I spent a good 10 years of my life following. And what did I do? Replace it with James Dobson Pat Robertson religious right pseudo – Christianity that replaces faith with culture. A lot of these people don’t even prominently mention Jesus Christ. They just talk about how they are “pro – family” or “pro – values”, like that “Values Voters Summit” that gave the huge boost to the fraud Mike Huckabee that hangs out with heretics like John Hagee and Kenneth Copeland. Huckabee and Copeland flat out broke the law by holding a fundraiser at Copeland’s church, I will grant you that Jesse Jackson does it too, BUT IT IS STILL ILLEGAL. Even when they do talk about Jesus Christ, it isn’t the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, but a false idol they have created to use to create some ideology (idol, ideology, idol, ideology, idol = ideology, get it, even if my etymology is TECHNICALLY wrong) around to facilitate their desire to impose their views on people and seek wealth and political power. Really, it is no different from Constantine’s advisor and theologian Eusebius, who by the way could have cared less whether the Trinitarians or the Arians that denied the pre – existence and deity of Jesus Christ prevailed at Nicea so long as he was able to keep Constantine on board.

    When I was looking for some good articles on the Trinity last year to use in my debate with oneness heretics, I found this excellent one written by this Church of Christ in the midwest. But when I went to their main web page, I was shocked. The pastor of this church was so steeped in his right wing conservative political ideology that he proudly stated that his church didn’t do anything to help the poor, because that was creating a culture of dependency on those people, and how those people needed to learn to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. So this guy had actually brought rhetoric from the political sphere regarding GOVERNMENT social welfare programs like public housing and food stamps and made it part of his RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE. When I emailed the fellow with the words of Jesus Christ in the gospels as well as verses from James and Acts demonstrating that the Bible specifically consistently tells the church to help the poor, the guy accused ME of twisting scriptures to support my LIBERAL political beliefs!

    What can be more anti – Christ than this political rhetoric spewed by the likes of thrice divorced drug addict Rush Limbaugh, Fox News owned by porn king Rupert Murdoch, and the other wicked rulers of the political and religious right, who quite frankly have just as many financial and sexual scandals as did Bill Clinton that causes people to hate and despise the poor and the marginalized in society when Jesus Christ said that the kingdom of heaven was GIVEN to the poor and marginalized in society? Most of us follow a corrupt westernized version of Christianity that associates wealth and status with morality and piety. Well go tell all of those impoverished, diseased, imprisoned, and persecuted Christians in places like Africa, North Korea, China, India, etc. that they aren’t fasting and praying enough or that they have sin in their hearts. If anything we wealthy American Christians sin more than the third world Christians do.

    And what is it with this American “rugged can do individualism” that tells us to put our trust in ourselves and be concerned with our own individual uplift instead of viewing ourselves as members of a universal Body of Christ who should be working and giving of ourselves collectively to edify the whole? What American church or movement out there is truly teaching us how to have the koinonia fellowship of the New Testament church? There’s this effort by the fellow who wrote “The Cotton Patch Gospel” Christian play (which I just acquired and will view over the weekend). If anyone tried, the folks with the right wing leavened mindset would call it a socialist cult.

    Now this is not to say that the left wing leavened mindset is any better. It just so happens that in this country, Christians with orthodox political beliefs usually tend to have conservative political beliefs more often than not. (You would be interested to know that in other times, places, and social contexts, orthodox Christians were considered liberal. This was certainly true of the 4th and 5th century church, where preachers that opposed the corruption of the Roman church – state were often martyred.)

    Instead, it is better to keep the straight and narrow middle path, not to veer aside to the right or left just like the Bible says. Any other way, and a person will wind up either doing evil or defending the evil that someone else does.

  95. SteelGator Says:

    Give me more IC…..I knew Mormonism was bad, but the more you peal back, the worst it gets.

    I am just making a point here so IC don’t get your dander up. As for some Mormon politicians, a point could be made that they are Mormon in name only. Many politicians say they are of a certain faith or denomination, but they act differently and vote differently then the religious organization they belong too. Also, they might have a very different take say on race the church they belong to. Another example is Calypso Louie and the Nation of Islam…..True Middle Eastern Muslims take offense at the Nation of Islam….They don’t consider them Muslim at all. The same could be true for some so called Mormon, Christian and/or Islamic politicians.

  96. greeneon Says:

    When I say final 2 it’s in relation to the Presidential Election. There will be other choices that I have to select on the National and local areas. No, God did not tell I have me to do this. Like anything, it’s a choice. I do recall somewhere in the bible where it speaks on the election/selection of leadership. I’ll have to look for that reference later. Read my post carefully again. I’m saying that I don’t rely on the opinions of man. But, look to God.

  97. greeneon Says:


    I don’t want to appear mean spirited either and I apologize if I came off that way. I just don’t like to take on man’s labels. You know the ones..Liberal, conservative, right, left, center, leftist, socialist, communist. I’d rather be referred to as Godly, holy and righteous.

  98. greeneon Says:

    I’m against All FORMS of murder. And yes GOD did instruct the Children of Israel. But, in order to receive that instruction you have to HEAR. They heard him and where obedient to his command. I wonder about the one’s who are doing the killing. From the mother who is seeking an abortion to the leader who is advocating war. Who Are They Hearing from?

  99. greeneon Says:


    I think that we can agree that everyone that you & I have mentioned are entertainers and are providing commentary for money/lucre/greed and to promote an agenda.

    I say Amen to you!

  100. healtheland Says:

    Trent Lott is a freemason and CFR guy.

  101. SteelGator Says:

    Great post and I agree with much of what you said. Both sides are corrupt with a lust for money and power. I have also been very critical of my friends on the right. Much of them have made Individualism their “false god” instead of relying on the True God our Father. On the left, we have friends that make “government” their “false god”.

    Having a former position with the Republican party, I found that many conservatives will stand on principle and will not vote if the candidate the party chooses does not have the qualities or views they want. An example with this is McCain….Tons of conservatives (Christians and non Christians)may not vote for McCain. He has constantly attacked Christians and so called “right wingers” for his own personal gain. I can totally understand this view.

    Democrats on the other hand really do not have a backlash like this. They will just go with the flow for whomever says is they are going to take from the haves and give to the have nots. Do you really think Obama supporters will not vote for Hillary or visa versa? Do you think the 90% of blacks that support Obama will sit at home if Hillary wins? No. Why is this?

    As for the Stalin / Hitler argument, America did make a choice during WWII. If we did not pick the lesser of these two evils, we would either be speaking German, sitting in a concentration camp or dead. This is Caesar’s world so to say that we should not pick between the lesser of two evils sometimes is just not an option. Do you think God wanted us to choose Stalin in order to defeat Hitler? Do you think God wanted us to do the opposite, or did God just want his children to sit out? I don’t know. However, I do know God wants us to live peaceably and live in a somewhat peaceful land so that we can worship Him. God gives us a “spirit” that longs to be free. Free from oppression, from sin, from godlessness. The only way, we as sinner can obtain this is through Christ. However, America was founded on this idea of individual and spiritual freedom. In some cases, too much freedom can be the downfall of a country. Too much regulation like Communists and Nazi will lead to their country’s demise. I think as citizens of America and as Christians, we need to vote for the person or people that will protect our “freedom”. Would you rather be a Christian in Communist China? Would you rather be a Christian in Muslim Sudan?

    The problem with discussing politics is that most folks don’t start from the same understanding of the political spectrum. Leftists usually see the political spectrum as a line….Hitler on one end (representing the right wing) and Stalin on the other end (representing the left wing). However, this is very flawed. The political spectrum needs to be seen as a circle with Communism and fascism on the bottom and freedom and liberty on the top. As you will see, Hitler had much more in common with Stalin than he did with America, or England. Our founding fathers wanted a land built on freedom. Right now, we have two main views of America. One supports less government and more freedom and the other supports less freedom and more government. I lean and I think any Christian should lean towards living in a free land. Why do you think so many people flee from countries all over the globe to come to the United States? I don’t see too many folks signing up to move to China or Uganda.

    Sorry I was all over the place, but just I would like your thoughts and feedback.

  102. IndependentConservative Says:

    Here’s some from a member of the cult: Darron Smith, A Black Mormon, Discussing Mormon Racism

    Now knowing what he knows, he should know the racists who claimed some things and are regarded as “prophets” were false prophets. That alone should help him see their chain of so-called prophets is a total farce and he’s walking in a lie to be a member of that cult.

    But they claim junk about how everybody has flaws to cover for the liars. They ignore that God requires PERFECT CLAIMS OF REVELATION from someone calling themselves a “prophet”. They don’t see how they are totally against scripture in claiming human failure in things those liars said were from God.

    Now also check out this: Mormon Racism And Interracial Marriage (Cohen being a Unitarian Universalist mentioned Mormons regarding his buddy Mitt Romney and just look where the conversation went.) See how lying Mormon so-called prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (he’s the guy who just died and all Mormons are crying over right now, their most recent lead man, Glenn Beck made up some tears for him on Headline News) continued the racist dogma by refusing to denounce it and even endorsing it as being right for the time the racist words were uttered!

    To say they are Mormons in name only, well now you’ve given Obama an out from being called racist by you. I was not going to speak against you calling him one, but you’ll have to ensure your judgment is consistent.

  103. IndependentConservative Says:


    I guess if your home was being intruded upon, you would not call the cops, given they would bring guns and potentially kill someone?

    Government killing at times has full scriptural support and is not always something you can equate to “murder”.

    Romans 13:3-4 (New American Standard Bible)

    3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;

    4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

    I was not going to get deep into this with you, but since you took SteelGator’s bait I might as well. You were misled into thinking all Christians are supposed to be pure pacifists. That’s not true and you’re not a pacifist yourself, because you’d call the cops who would come with their force and guns, if ANYONE DARED enter your house! That’s not pacifism, that’s advocating of force in self defense and you would farm the job of strong arm out to the police to claim no blood is on your hands. It didn’t work with David and it won’t work with you hiding behind government’s force.

    The fact is, you’re OK with force, even killing to a certain degree. And killing does not equal murder in every case.

    So don’t look down on we Christians that keep guns. We are just willing to defend ourselves as you do via proxy. And unlike some who call the cops, we won’t share the burden of having to shed blood with others if we can help it. Government enables you to defend yourself and there is nothing ungodly about doing so.

    And I’ve got way more support in NT scripture to support my position. Until the day you can claim that when someone breaks into your house, you’d get on your knees and pray without picking up the phone, you’re not a pure pacifist and there is no reason for you to be one.

    We don’t use force when government comes to imprison us for our faith, but that does not mean you’ve got to let a thug slaughter your household.

  104. IndependentConservative Says:

    greeneon you said:

    I do recall somewhere in the bible where it speaks on the election/selection of leadership. I’ll have to look for that reference later.

    Yea, please show me those scriptures the moment you find them.

    I read your comment and questioned you about it because you used the statement “I will have to”. As if this is something you must do. It is rather something you want to do, but not mandatory. At least not mandated to the church. I’m 100% OK with you doing what you feel you should. I just don’t want anyone to think God said all Christians have to always vote, because that’s not consistent with scripture or church history. Church history is very much the opposite of how we do today in our levels of political involvement.

  105. SteelGator Says:

    IC said….”To say they are Mormons in name only, well now you’ve given Obama an out from being called racist by you. I was not going to speak against you calling him one, but you’ll have to ensure your judgment is consistent.”

    Look, I never said these politicians are Momons in name only. I am just saying, some will make that argument. I am sure Obama and his apologists don‘t like me and others calling Obama a racist even though he is.

    If you are going to call Mormons racist then you are going to have to call Obama one, yourself.

    Onto Darron Smith, is he a descendent of Joseph junior? Anyway, how can a black man or woman be a part of a racist religion? I know that their mind is warped into the cult mentality but man, the writing is all over the wall that most white Mormons do not like blacks.

  106. SteelGator Says:

    greeneon reply on March 7th, 2008 at 1:18 pm :

    I’m against All FORMS of murder. And yes GOD did instruct the Children of Israel. But, in order to receive that instruction you have to HEAR. They heard him and where obedient to his command. I wonder about the one’s who are doing the killing. From the mother who is seeking an abortion to the leader who is advocating war. Who Are They Hearing from?

    I didn’t ask you if you were against all forms of murder. I asked if you support a right of a woman to have an abortion (which is murder).

    You also will want to re-study the Bible in regard to war and/or self-defense. I think IC already did a grat job addressing these issues.

  107. greeneon Says:

    I feel you. I should make my expression more clearer here. Of course, It’s not a commandment from God that I must vote or being involved in the political process. I’ll come back those references later.

  108. SteelGator Says:

    health eland:

    Don’t worry about responding to my comment on the Democrats. I was proved wrong as they have finally cracked. Obama and Hillary are about ready to kill each other. News reports are saying that Hillary wants FLA and Michigan voters not to be disenfranchised and wants every vote and delegate to count. Al Sharpton defending Obama says that the votes in Florida and Michigan should not count. Ironic seeing his view in the 2000 Florida recount. Obama’s anti Semitic foreign policy campaign advisor had to resign because she called Hillary a “monster”. You got Bill out stumping for his so called “wife” attacking the black man. You got Obama asking for Hillary to show all her tax records. She says she will in due time but insiders say there are some issues with their tax returns…..Bill’s “non profit” made like $700,000 of an IPO stock purchase of a “high tech firm“, that was started by a convicted felon and backed by the Chinese government. Dems are looking to bring Al “the global warming alarmist fraud” Gore into negotiate and mediate between Hillary and Obama. Some are thinking to ask Gore to run for President to save the party. (Source Gary Bauer at Campaign For Working Families.)

    This is some funny stuff. Like Napoleon said (and I paraphrase), never interfere when your enemies are busy destroying each other.

  109. healtheland Says:


    Just FYI, the “Stalin versus Hitler” thing was more of a rhetorical moral question, not a practical political one. It was my way of making the point “choosing the lesser of two evils means that evil still wins.” And it is always a false choice. Satan always tries makes you believe that you can only pick from among a bunch of bad options. The political context is but one way that he tries to push this mindset onto people, but it is a way. After all, what keeps all of us conservatives from going out and voting for the Constitution or Libertarian candidates? For that matter, what keeps liberal voters from supporting the Green Party? Media and political brainwashing, and a lot of these churches are part and parcel of it.

    I am of the opinion that whoever wins out of McCain, Hillary, and Obama will be our enemy because they will serve a different master from mine. I would urge that all Christians take on the same mindset. The next 4 years are going to be rough, so we are going to have to put our armor on!

  110. Albertadude Says:

    Sorry Healthland but I have to disagree with you about regarding all choices as equally bad…that is moral relativism and that is wrong for a Christian to succumb to.

    In WW 2 we sided with the lessor of 2 evils by fighting with Stalin which I think was the right decision as history shows us….

    Now let us be honest….as bad as some of the current candidates are, I think we would agree they are not Stalinists or Hitlerites?

    I do believe that as Christians we are to do our best to stem evil where ever we find it……and in a democracy, we have to be realistic…many times we will not have a perfect candidate to pull for..especially in these dark times…

    Hillary and Obama are off the map in terms of radical leftists…..and that leaves us a RINO…McCain…oy…still…I will always vote for the best of a bad lot…..

    I am sure that you would agree that Hillary and Obama are the worse of the lot and that McCain is the best of a bad lot no?

  111. IndependentConservative Says:

    I feel all 3 are just as bad and this blog has never had a kind word with the name “McCain” attached to it, even well before he decided to run for President. Unlike the neo-cons, I’m not going to start acting like he’s something good (or even considerable) just because most of the country endorsed him as the Republican nominee.

    You would be hard pressed to find “Conservatives” speaking nice about John McCain UNTIL he won some primaries. He’s still the same old McLame and will prove it in action if he wins. And just wait if he has to pick Supreme Court justices. Some of you might want me to delete your comments favoring him then 😆 .

  112. healtheland Says:


    “Now let us be honest….as bad as some of the current candidates are, I think we would agree they are not Stalinists or Hitlerites?”

    With all due respect, I disagree with you. Below is an example why.

  113. art123 Says:

    Jesus said in John 18:36 that if His kingdom was of this world, then His servants would fight. He also said to the disiples before they became apostles that they will be joint heirs with Him when He return to reign. Therefore I agree with Healtheland that this is an anti-christ system. Revelations 13 speak of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. I believe that today’s political system and the church are all in cohorts with each other to bring forth the anti-christ. You will not have a system whereas it is all for the good because it is not time for that. They are just fulfilling scripture which in the end, they are destined for a downfall. It has to happen and its going to happen. I would also like to say that America is more subtle with their Communist practices and they are no different than Hitler or Stalin. Democracy is a political front and word has it the government wants to do away with the constitution.

  114. IndependentConservative Says:

    Game over!

    But of course, this is the part where somebody will chime in who still really thinks that McLame and/or the Republicans really will do something about it.

  115. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well it could be said that the US Constitution was abandoned for something called a “living document”, that is used and considered in coordination with the laws of other nations. And has been the case for a long time. I touched on how it was known things might become like that in my post about some things the Anti-Federalists had correct.

    Once you realize God’s Word will not return to him void and what has been foretold to occur WILL all come to past EXACTLY WHEN HE has predestined for it to occur. You know there is no need to fret politics.

  116. greeneon Says:

    Without getting into a long dissertation, I’ll make my answer brief.

    You all were looking for a narrow response to specific questions.


    Some of which you state about my position is true. I’m not a pacifist. When challenged I will defend myself and also apply the Laws of the land to situations that I may find myself in. ITS ALL ABOUT ORDER! However, you have also come to some incorrect conclusions, concerning my thoughts and my views of christian behaviour. Your expressions seem to have turned me into some thing that I am not.


    Abortions should be illegal.

    I’m done. Time to shake dust.

    Gods grace, peace and blessings be upon you all.

  117. healtheland Says:


    So you are saying that God’s peace is not resting on this weblog? And who is hating here? The only hating that I see is that of abortion. I should point out that I am a fellow opponent of the Iraq War. But my feeling is rather than trying to pick and choose between the evil of the Iraq War and the evil of the abortion – which is Satan wants us to do! – pick NEITHER. Vote third party, independent, or don’t vote at all. You also have the option of doing the reverse of what most people do. In presidential elections, most people vote for President and leave every other slot blank, utterly ridiculous when the local offices are the ones that determine things like what the public schools in your area are going to teach, whether you will be allowed to own a handgun, whether the porn industry will be allowed to set up shop, etc. So try to find Godly men and women in all the other races and leave the slot black for President.

  118. IndependentConservative Says:


    When challenged I will defend myself and also apply the Laws of the land to situations that I may find myself in. ITS ALL ABOUT ORDER!

    So then you realize some killing is not murder. And sometimes war has maintained order. I’m not trying to justify Iraq to you, but speaking of these things in general. You gave no specifics, so neither do I.

    Time to shake dust.

    I know you’re not trying to claim Matthew 10:14-15.

    I think it will be more tolerable for the folks who comment here than Sodom when the Lord returns.

    I think many use that line WAAAAAAAAY out of proper context.

    Anyway, goodbye. I wish you God speed. Although we may not be in agreement about all things, I feel you love the Lord Jesus. As the Lord conforms us to Himself, one day we will all see clearly.

  119. art123 Says:

    IC, in reading it, one must question how effective is the constitution because if a person is arrested for carrying arms even with a permit, and not robbing a bank, or doing something within their constitutional rights, something is wrong with the system. Another question: Is justice really blind? Is the constitution for the select few or the masses? One more comment I would like to say regarding your comments on Obama, Farrakhan, and Malcolm X. Though I do not agree with the Muslim religion for it is not Christ-centered, I agree with Malcolm X’s views and thoughts concerning the plight of African-Americans and how we should wake up to this bias system. As far as Obama and Farrakhan, should it be a question of whether or not Obama is racist or if it is a double standard going on? You may not want to hear this but still, you have to again go back to the plight of African-Americans even to this day. Whites were racist and unloving towards us first so I see it as a reaction to the white man system. You can say let bygones be bygones but racism is real even to this day and God knows it is.

  120. IndependentConservative Says:

    So how does responding to past racism or even present racism with racism solve anything? It does not!

    How does staying focused on race like Malcolm X solve anything? It does not!
    Anyone who wants their own separate Black place can have it, count me out.

    The focus must be Christ and so harboring anger about what dead people did is certainly out of the equation, not to mention holding anger about someone else’s skin tone because some of them might not like our skin tone. There is no excuse for sin to be enabled or seen as permissible. Be it racial partiality from Blacks or Whites or Latinos or so on.

    Martin Luther King Jr. spent lots of time on race and secular humanist “good”, but he seemed to miss Christ when we are honest about it. And Malcolm X missed Christ too we know. So I’ll let others focus on race and spying every spot of racism. Regardless of race, everyone who maintains the items noted in Walter E. Williams’ write-up How Not To Be Poor always seem to fair better in secular terms. Fretting a possibly “biased system” changes nothing. And even Blacks in the middle of African nations find ways to be biased against one another. Sin is everywhere and people like Malcolm X, Farra-the-Con and Obama’s “pastor” Jeremiah Wright make race into a cult. So nope, I won’t dwell on it, because it’s a rather poisonous place to maintain focus.

    The hard cold fact is, that Blacks were rising better in the secular stats until the “great society” programs came in. Get enough old Black folks in a room and ask this question “what happened to Black communities once government offered welfare”. I assure you, you’ll have a most enlightening day with them from that point.

    It was foretold these systems of man would forsake God and not glorify Him. The hope is Jesus Christ, who will grant rewards that are beyond this life.

  121. healtheland Says:


    Regarding Malcolm X, good fruit cannot come from a wicked vine. At the very most, God will use a wicked person to accomplish His Will. This is going to sound difficult to accept, but remember that it IS coming from a black man that was also a wannabe nationalist radical whatever, and that is that the experiences of blacks in America are not unique to history. Human history is one of racism, slavery, brutality, exploitation, etc. committed by one group against another, or one group against itself. The only reason why people believe that blacks need to “wake up and fight for their rights” is because we happen to live in one of the very societies in human history that pretends to make everyone equal under the law. (I think that it is fair to point out that the notion of equal status under the secular law DID NOT come from the Bible, but rather from Enlightenment philosophy that specifically rejected the authority and truth of the Bible.)

    In most of human history and indeed in most of the world today, such notions are thoroughly rejected and seen as ridiculous. I would say that 99.9% of the people that walked the face of the earth have done so in places where women, children, the poor, minorities, etc. had no rights, and when I say “the poor” I am not talking about the small percentage fairly egalitarian societies like ours where we have large middle and working classes, but hierarchical societies where you had a tiny elite ruling over a huge number of desperately poor people.

    And such was the situation in the time of Jesus Christ. We know that Jesus Christ was not a Roman citizen because it was illegal to crucify Roman citizens because crucifixion was considered too cruel for the privileged people, but rather a fate only for the lower classes that were viewed as being not much better than barbarians!

    The Jews were subjected to a very brutal Roman Empire in which virtually none of whom were citizens, and if you were not a Roman citizen you had no rights. A “civil rights movement” or an anti – slavery movement in Rome (there were more slaves the Roman Empire than citizens!) would have resulted in its leaders being crucified, beheaded, or thrown to the lions! Yet Jesus Christ did NOTHING to remedy or overthrow the evil empire, and at no point did any of the writers of the New Testament say that it was their job. And as bad as Rome was get this: Rome was actually far more civilized, “fairer”, than most of the nations of its day.

    And I am sorry, but the last person that I am going to listen to a human rights lecture from is a Muslim. Muslim societies are among the most brutal repressive ones on the planet. So Malcolm Little was going to run off and join a Muslim cult just because America wouldn’t let him be an architect (yes I read his autobiography by the LIAR Alex Haley). Please. If Malcolm X’s Christian mother were living in Sudan right now, those Muslims would rape and mutilate her and then turn whatever remains into a sex slave. Do you know that the Nation of Islam DENIES slavery and genocide against CHRISTIAN blacks by Arab Muslims in Sudan and elsewhere in Africa? I still remember when the atrocious Cynthia McKinney was “representing” the Atlanta area in Congress. Her office put out a press release claiming that the genocide, rape, imperialism, etc. going on in Sudan wasn’t being done by the Arab Muslims, but rather that it was REALLY the fault of British Petroleum! Why? Because McKinney had all those MUSLIMS working on her Congressional staff, and was taking campaign contributions from all of those MUSLIM political groups. By the way: Barack HUSSEIN Obama has a similar staff.

    Blacks are allowing the racism and injustice that we experience in this society so affect us because people like Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, etc. do not educate us as to how these injustices and much much worse are present in EVERY society. Jackson and these other civil rights leaders have been all over the world. Al Sharpton even went to Sudan. They know how those people live. They just don’t care. They are withholding the truth from us so they can exploit the anger and resentment of blacks and using it to deliver black souls straight into Babylon. In that regards, they are no different from how David Duke, Jesse Helms, and people like that do the same with white people.

    Why do black Americans believe that we “deserve” so much better than the blacks in Sudan, Liberia, Ghana, Kenya, Haiti, etc.? I will tell you: because we are American. Just because we are American, we think that we “deserve” this and that, and that we are so much better than everyone else. And that makes us different from the typical white flag waving racist how? It doesn’t.

  122. art123 Says:

    You know what? God is racist and I would like for you to tell Him that. He does not love everybody like the churches teaches. The Old and New Testament proves it. Also to point out and again, I do not condone the Muslim faith and let the truth be told, the most credible person to listen to is the word of God. True, when you deviate from God, he sends you a devil in his place and would bring oppression to go with it too. That’s why we should seek peace from Him in these times and it would surpass our understanding as the bible says, I was paraphrasing. I also agree that regardless of race, you can become a victim of your own people. To move up to higher ground and be ‘equal’ with your white counterparts, you would have to sell out. We can talk about race issues, but agreed that there is no solution but a divine solution. Call it poison if you will, but you’re dealing with a poisonous system that can’t be trusted. Obama is an unstable character to begin with. If elected, he will only take orders from the higher ups and so will Clinton and McCain. Question: Do you believe that the constitution is tailored for only the select few instead of the masses? I mean people’s civil rights are constantly violated.

  123. IndependentConservative Says:

    I would like for you to tell Him that

    Tell Him what?

    To move up to higher ground and be ‘equal’ with your white counterparts, you would have to sell out.

    Sell out who? How?

    What do you make of Walter E. Williams’ write-up? He’s only got a complete history of data to support his position. And I don’t see how that advice violates anything Christian, but rather supports things Christians endorse. The Lord wills who will have what, but there seems to be a noticeable and undeniable pattern in some cases.

    Question: Do you believe that the constitution is tailored for only the select few instead of the masses?

    I’ll answer your question with one or 2 of my own: Who wrote it? Who used to be the only ones able to vote? And don’t answer in racial terms. The real answer is land owners.

    Civil rights violated. I’ll defer to healtheland’s comment.

    We all agree secular things have a corrupt core. So I don’t think we’ll find good coming from them.

    (Please use the “reply to this comment” link to reply under a comment you respond to. Click it to reply under your own if responding to a response that was made to you.)

  124. art123 Says:

    To be specific, would you tell God He is a racist? Secondly, black leaders and higher ups are bought and sold. Also what about Communist ties that most of them had. Freemasons are nothing but witches and warlocks in league with the devil. Lastly, if blacks are considered three-fifths of a man, the constitution is not for you.

  125. IndependentConservative Says:

    To be specific, would you tell God He is a racist?

    Well God knows when I said:

    The focus must be Christ and so harboring anger about what dead people did is certainly out of the equation, not to mention holding anger about someone else’s skin tone because some of them might not like our skin tone. There is no excuse for sin to be enabled or seen as permissible. Be it racial partiality from Blacks or Whites or Latinos or so on.

    I was speaking about you, myself and other Christians and how we should treat these things.

    Lastly, if blacks are considered three-fifths of a man, the constitution is not for you.

    How many Blacks and Whites have died to keep the nation together AND do away with such? Too many for me to even find value in responding to that.

  126. art123 Says:

    I’ll respond to the last sentence. Tell the cops about your civil rights and see if they give a hoot. Therefore they have died in vain.

  127. IndependentConservative Says:

    Actually they do. I’ve had the cops work on my behalf on many occasions. Some of my friends are cops. And yes, some of them are White.

    Or am I supposed to allow a few instances that occurred to me about 20 years ago forever paint my view of all cops?

    If there is a bad seafood salesperson in town, should I consider all seafood salespeople as not caring?

    So for me they didn’t all die in vain.

    You can’t even imagine life when Blacks REALLY were considered as and treated like 3/5ths a person.

    It’s literally laughable to be having this conversation in a thread where the main topic is a Black man, that has beaten out many White men already and possibly a White woman for his party’s Presidential nomination. Not that I stand with the guy at all, but just to have this conversation in this thread is the most laughable of ironies.

    (Please use the “reply to this comment” link to reply under a comment you respond to.)

  128. art123 Says:

    The reason we’re having this conversation is because Obama is a joke who will only take orders from higher ups as if they give a hoot about black folks anyway. So are we going forward or backwards. The only difference is the shackles is removed from us and we are still spiritually blind and lost to our heritage. And the joke is on you and a lot of black folks who are asleep. Throw some crumbs and a white woman to a black man and he’s happy. Is that the case with you? Sorry IC, I like you as a person though we’ve never met, but I see that our views clash. You don’t even believe that the government is behind 911 and you support Bush. Also you’re talking to someone who has worked around cops too. Yes, you have some good ones and some VERY RACIST ones too. However, that doesn’t mitigate the fact that racism is real and swept under the rug and Obama is NOT our god. He will not change anything. You may want to forget what happened to you 20 years ago, but what if God holds them accountable for that? Just like God is going to hold this country accountable for oppressing the unfortunate as they are doing now. If you wish to ban me from this blog, do so for I have said my peace.

  129. IndependentConservative Says:

    OK art123, you’re really getting to a point where I have to ask you to restrain yourself.

    You’re not banned, but you are being asked to either show respect not only to me, but even people who are in mixed race relationships, or leave yourself. If you take great issue with what is done here, you may need to find another place to spend time, so there is no strife among fellow saints.

    You are starting to exhibit some issues that you know I won’t permit to continue. So I’m respectfully asking you as my sister in Christ to restrain yourself.

  130. KyleAndrews Says:

    The real powers that be is the devil. And in this whole Dems vs Pubs, well, the Devil is in the details as they say. Barrack Hussein Obama is a hypocrite. How can he claim to be a Christian and support the abortion mill that purposely targets blacks. You want to talk about 3/5s a person. How about 0 in the eyes of Margaret Sanger the beloved of the Democrat Party of which Obama is part of. Here are some good links.


  131. greeneon Says:


    This exchange has been good for me.

    I think/thank we/Him can all agree that there is a time to be a peacemaker and a time to be a warrior. I just pray that he will bring us all closer in unity within HIS GREAT LOVE.

    I love you with the love that He has given me and wish you all Godspeed as well.


  132. SteelGator Says:

    Best of the bad lot…..Great way to put it.

    IC: I think we (conservative Christians)have an opportunity to pressure McCain into picking the right justices. If I am wrong, I will be glad to admit it. If we can get just one more Thomas or Scalia, it will be worth holding my nose and pushing the button for McLame.

  133. IndependentConservative Says:

    You know I’ll be here once he proves you wrong and I won’t rub it in. Not much 😆 .

    Let’s pray I’m humble 😉 .

  134. SteelGator Says:

    Humility does not seem to be your style….lol….I am a big boy. I can take my lumps. I sure have eaten a ton of crow over the Gators this last football and basketball season.

  135. SteelGator Says:

    Looks like McLame is actually trying to put a moratorium on pork barrel legislation. This is not something you will see from Obama or Hilldabeast. Great idea, but all Democrats and most GOPers won’t like this. Out of control spending keeps these clowns in office.,CST-EDT-novak10.article

  136. IndependentConservative Says:

    He’d have to cut a lot more than what is considered “pork”, to stop the fiat currency train! That’s the cheap window dressing on a very ugly…shall I say ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM 😀 .

  137. SteelGator Says:

    Come on IC…You got to give the guy credit for trying to stop the wasteful spending in Congress. McCain can not stop the fiat currency train, and we know it. Stopping wasteful spending may just slow it down. Cutting pork means cutting spending which means taxes can be cut…. which stimulates the economy which helps all of us.

    If you just want to sit back and play the “gloom and doom” game, you can. If you want to try to change things, then you ought to run for office. Try and run as a Democrat because the “gloom and doom” message seems to get their base energized just like in 1992, 1996 and 2006.

  138. SteelGator Says:

    Also, like Duncan Hunter said, most politicians do not even understand the problem the Fed Reserve and taking the dollar off the “gold standard” has caused.

  139. IndependentConservative Says:

    The reality of it all is, that even with the pork cut (when I say pork, I’m talking about what they consider to be pork), the government still spends way more than is taken in taxes. Even the Democrats tax increases would not be enough. The government would have to cut DEEP. Including things it would even to its self consider to be essential, even some things you fully support.

    But hey, Duncan Hunter knew there was a problem. I don’t have to run myself. He tried and showed even with the modest changes he wanted that you can’t be elected.

    You all are enjoying the empty dollars till it all bites.

  140. SteelGator Says:

    What is the deal with America? Why is it when a white person says something negative about a black person it is automatically because the white person is racist?

    Why when a man says something negative (mind you that it could be true) about a woman, it is because men are sexist?

    Look at Obama and Hillary. Clinton says something truthful about Obama’s record and since it was in a negative light, Obama calls her a racist. Obama says something truthful about Hillary’s record and he is branded a sexist pig.

    I know that white conservatives have been dealing with this for a long time. I just never thought I would see the day when liberals are beating each other up with the same lies they attack conservatives with. It is sort of fun to see the shoe on the other foot so to say. However, it still is ridiculous. When are American adults going to grow up and quit acting like children?…..These are people that want to be the next leader of the free world. I would laugh if it was not so unbelievably sad.

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