Rekjalhew

December 19, 2007

John Hagee, the Biggest Apostate Heretic of 2007! (*Updated*)

by @ 12:51 am. Filed under Nuts on Parade

Back when he failed on the parable of the sower, you knew he was a heretic. Everyone took issue with how he refused to evangelize Jews, you knew he was apostatizing then in refusing to evangelize Jews. By now everybody knows, that he has set the bar for apostate heretics at a height (or perhaps I should say depth) rarely seen. John Hagee has fully denied the truth of the Messiah. When Hagee proclaimed his dual-covenant nonsense in defiance of Hebrews 8:13, it was obvious Hagee had made himself a false christ via creating a false covenant model of his own. Well in continuing to prove that he’s really an agent for Satan, Hagee has written a book of heresy. Covina sent me a link to the best review you can read about the book a while back. (Read the book review, to see fully why I address Hagee as I do in this post.) The book is titled In Defense of Israel, but Hagee is trying to send all of Israel to damnation with himself. He hopes to leave the people Christ first proclaimed Himself to as Lord and Savior in condemnation. Don’t believe me? Read John 3, notice that the ever quoted verse 16 is part of a statement Christ made to Nicodemus, A RULER OF THE JEWS. Christ made it clear they must believe on HIM or perish.

I never told you about night 5 of TBN’s November 2007 Pimp-a-thon. Well on night 5 of that circus of heresy, they featured old footage of John Hagee. Keep in mind, they aired this footage of Hagee over a month after his apostate book was released. So obviously TBN wanted to show their heretic buddy, that they still liked him paying them for air time having him around. Our brother Matt Green, who has a good new post about Hagee’s apostate book, captured video of Hagee’s TBN Pimp-a-thon performance. See it in the video below.

 

TBN Fleece-a-Thon Fall 2007 Night 5
TBN re-airs old footage of their apostate buddy John Hagee.

First heretic Hagee says it’s legalism to give money expecting to move the hand of God, then he claims Jewish racial superiority, then he claims if you send in money Gawd is gonna give you something in return. He totally contradicts himself, while making it appear that having a child prayed for in a synagogue is more beneficial than doing so in an assembly of saints. But send in money and things will be better :roll: .
Well with all this heresy, guess who is going to be hanging out with this apostate on December 23rd? US Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee! Huckabee loves the pimps you know. Our brother on YouTube Oct31st1517 informed me about Huckabee’s upcoming appearance at John Hagee’s church building club. See the announcement for yourself on the Hagee club web site. And like I’ve said repeatedly, no way I’m voting for Mike Huckabee! (No way I’m voting for most of the top polling candidates, but that’s for another post and another day.) I’m just wondering, of those who claim the Lord’s name and embrace Mike Huckabee, will his hanging out with a grand apostate help them see there is a problem with him?So I just can’t think of a bigger apostate heretic this year, that keeps his face on camera than John Hagee. Nobody should take what Hagee is offering, because he’s offering a false gospel. Some might claim John Hagee “backslid”, but what you are seeing is a false christ being exposed for the fraud that he is.

1 John 2:18-19 (New American Standard Bible)

18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Bottom line, John Hagee was never actually saved, never actually converted, never actually baptized by the Holy Spirit and has no Spirit indwelling him. Some people might act like they are walking around with Jesus, but the Father never called them to His Son.

John 6:62-66 (New American Standard Bible)

58 “This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.” 59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?”

61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble?

62 “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

64 “But there are some of you who do not believe ” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

While many saints are thinking John Hagee turned, Jesus always knew Hagee was not honestly converted and not a believer of the full truth about Him. Not like the JEWISH disciples who remained with Christ and knew He was their only hope for salvation. (Minus of course the betrayer Judas, that Christ knew about.)
Nobody does themselves any good remaining under the teachings of John Hagee. For all Hagee has done, he still has time to repent. Perhaps someone near him will be bold enough to tell him the truth and perhaps God will remove the scales from his eyes. God converted an unbelieving persecutor of Christians named Saul, so anything is possible, but John Hagee is on course for Matthew 7:23.

update 12/19/2007: I’ve found Hagee’s book promotion video.

 

John Hagee [speaking as antichrist claims] Jesus NOT Messiah(audio|video perfect)

I think a Jew named Peter was used by God to prove otherwise.

Acts 4:1-14 (New American Standard Bible)

1 As they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to them,

2 being greatly disturbed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

3 And they laid hands on them and put them in jail until the next day, for it was already evening.

4 But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.

5 On the next day, their rulers and elders and scribes were gathered together in Jerusalem;

6 and Annas the high priest was there, and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of high-priestly descent.

7 When they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, “By what power, or in what name, have you done this?”

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,

9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well,

10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead–by this name this man stands here before you in good health.

11 “He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone.

12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

13 Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.

14 And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they had nothing to say in reply.

John Hagee is an antichrist, read why in 1 John 2:17-24.



46 Responses to “John Hagee, the Biggest Apostate Heretic of 2007! (*Updated*)”

  1. trayjay Says:

    Good morning, I.C.  Thanks for this information.  When I first heard about this, I was so disappointed.  It has gotten to where it seems that everyone on TV is being “outed” as "not being with us from the beginning" and I am so grateful to the Lord God that He ensures that we know truth from error.  I heard someone make a statement that was so true, "We shouldn’t get upset about these things because God is simply showing us who the false prophets are.  The increasing number of them are a testament of His soon return.  Rather than get depressed about the many who are turning out to be against Christ, rejoice in know that His return is nigh."  I hold on to that.    I myself have just stopped going to church.  The Lord sent me to my Pastor a few times to show him some of the things that God is not pleased with and while he acknowledged some things, he never goes back to the Body to “undo” the damage.  And I’m noticing that more and more he’s trying to follow heretics like Bill Hybles and the WoFers, and bringing worldly stuff into the services.  I haven’t been to church since October 24th.  I got tired of sermons out of books by ungodly men, movies full of eastern mysticism being shown during Sunday morning service to "help the people really get" a message, the worship team singing songs by ungodly so-called gospel singers, etc.  I’m just spending time with the Lord and having daily fellowship with some of my sisters to keep up my encouragement in the Lord with telephone bible studies and conversations that talk about, praise, and proclaim the truth of God’s Word until He steers me to another Church (if it be so).  But right now, I’m so sick of what I see going on in "Churches" around America that I just need time to detox.    I will make sure that everyone that I know who still watches Hagee gets this information.  May the Lord richly bless you, your family, and your efforts to continue in sharing the very truths that will save someone from the Apostasy; at least those who truly desire the Truth: James 1:14-16 – But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).  Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.  Do not be misled, my beloved brethren. 

  2. IndependentConservative Says:

    trayjay

    I myself have just stopped going to church.

    Have you tried asking some folks like those over on Melvin’s blog where he gets lots of comments, if they can refer you to a church standing on sound doctrine in your area?  Don’t give up searching.  Just don’t end up with John Hagee ;) .

    Thank you for the words of encouragement.

  3. healtheland Says:

    http://pastors4huckabee.com

    http://pastors4huckabeeblog.com

  4. IndependentConservative Says:

    healtheland -

    Do you mind offering a little commentary?  Just posting links might lead some who don’t otherwise know, to feel you posted the links in support of Huckabee.

  5. godlysoldier Says:

    Trayjay, I feel you.  I’m at the same point in my christian walk.  I haven’t been to my church since 10/13/07…reading your post was like I wrote it myself.  I am in continual prayer about a place to worship because I do believe we should not forsake the fellowshipping of ourselves together…but again, that can be with other saints that also desire the TRUTH!  It’s been a long journey but now that the "scales" have fallen off of my eyes after being in the WOF church for 10 years, I just can’t stand to hear anymore of that nonsense.  It’s like I’m just now being born again because of the bad doctrine I "allowed" myself to be under for lack of "studying to show MYSELF APPROVED unto God and rightly divide the word.  It was hard to admit (probably pride) that I was just a "pulpit word-fed-christian!"  But because of 1Jn 2:27 and my true desire for truth, the Holy Spirit began to show me things almost 2 years ago that just didn’t sit well in my spirit…long story short (I know you all on this blog feel me) the realization of what the Holy Spirit was showing me was the false doctrine and false teachers that are deceiving the body of Christ.  I’m in the place of getting to know God and His Word for myself.  I’ve lost prayer partners and fallen from grace in the church because I chose the "truth" over the "lie!"  But I have no hardness of heart, I just pray that the truth would be revealed to the sheep still caught up in the "lie" as we know from scripture that this "apostasy" must come before Christ’s return.  I just thank Him everyday for allowing me to come into the truth.  This blog encourages me as I know it was by divine intervention that I came across this and a "few" others as God confirmed what He’s doing in my life.  I pray that the false teachers will continue to be exposed and that our hearts remain true as we stand for truth while not forgetting that love is the greatest command and the driving force behind our stand for truth and "setting those still captive free."  May continual blessing and peace be with you all and pray for me as I pray for you

  6. IndependentConservative Says:

    that can be with other saints that also desire the TRUTH!

    It SHOULD be with saints that desire the truth. Keep searching. We all had to upset some folks by letting them know we can’t remain in fellowship with them if they desire to be under bad doctrine. But keep looking till you find an assembly of saints in your area standing on the truth.

    We all must remain in prayer for one another and pray for others who are outside of truth as well.

  7. godlysoldier Says:

    AMAN!

  8. IndependentConservative Says:

    This post has been updated with video of the antichrist speaking.

  9. KyleNYC Says:

    Not to be a Pollyanna, but if you look at it another way, with this great "falling away" going on right before your eyes (yes, the apostasy will be televised), you can rejoice because YOU KNOW your salvation is at hand.

  10. oct31st1517 Says:

    What makes me so upset about this antichrist (Hagee) is that he is keeping the jews from coming to Christ as savior. In fact he has said ““In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity, he says.” He accuses anyone who does not support Israel an antisemite. If anyone is an anti-semite, it’s hagee because he is keeping the Jewish people from coming to Jesus as messiah.

  11. IndependentConservative Says:

    In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’

    There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people.

    I guess this means Hagee does not read much of the New Testament scriptures.  I mean if he’s right, the apostles were all full of false teaching for spending so much time on the Jews.  All the time Christ spent telling them to come to Him would be untrue.  Luke 19:41-44 would be a total lie!  You can’t say Jesus is anything if you can’t say He is the One True Messiah.

    It’s true Hagee obviously hates the Jews, but he loves attention, money…and food.

  12. IndependentConservative Says:

    oct31st1517 – I’m going to need you to note the source of your quotes from Hagee.  I always like to ensure all quotes are well sourced.  Although I have no doubt he said it.

  13. oct31st1517 Says:

    No problem my brother. Here is the link. http://www.pfo.org/jonhagee.htm

  14. Gxg--G2 Says:

    I mean if he’s right, the apostles were all full of false teaching for spending so much time on the Jews

    And very confused if many Jews were actually CONVERTED:

    Acts 13:14-16 14From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue rulers sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a message of encouragement for the people, please speak.” 16Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Men of Israel and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!Acts 13:41-43  41” ‘Look, you scoffers,
          wonder and perish,
       for I am going to do something in your days
          that you would never believe,
          even if someone told you.’[a]“ 42As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. 43When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.”

    Acts 14In Iconium 1At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Gentiles believed. 2But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers. 3So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.

    Acts 17In Thessalonica 1When they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that the Christ[a] had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ,[b]” he said. And some of them were persuaded…….

    Acts 18:4
    Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.Acts 18:19
    They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

    Acts 19:7-9  8Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.

     

     Sorry, IC…..but I couldn’t resist. Has any of this ever been posted before Hagee

  15. 2thehilt Says:

    Since many of the pastors out here are teaching error and God knew from the beginning how things would be during our time, then does Hebrews 10:25 really necessitate that we have to go to an assembly, in the sense that the many do?  Or do things like this online forum count as an assembly.  Hagee is just one of a myriad of false prophets who will continue to multiply like poisonous mushrooms in a forest.  I have also quit going to church because we have a gaggle of pastors in my area that are just like him.  When trying to speak truth about these matters and staying out of these fake churches, I am all but damned to hell by establishment friends.  Sorry IC, didn’t mean to veer off topic, but the Hagee thing plus the responses I’ve seen sortof opened up a larger  can-o-worms for me.  Any enlightenment would be appreciated.  Thanks

  16. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Not going to an organized church of some sort may be a problem, though…

  17. IndependentConservative Says:

    2thehilt said:

    Or do things like this online forum count as an assembly.

    No.  You need to keep looking till you find an assembly of sound doctrine in your area, to do with other like minded saints as the Lord commands for your area and whatever you might do collectively for saints abroad.  On top of that, the collective work of outreach ministry, to those who God will call to His Son.  Along with general good.  And in case anyone didn’t notice, I’m no church elder :) .  I’m still wondering if there would be a means for me to avoid the "stricter judgment" of James 3:1, but about the only role I fulfill in the function of ministry would be that of a teacher.  Some new sort of cyberspace based one, but a teacher of sorts.

  18. 2thehilt Says:

    Point well taken.  Thanks for the info!

  19. art123 Says:

    Revelations 3:9,  somebody is blaspheming out there to say they are Jews.  To whom is Jesus referring to?  Anybody out there can say that they are a Jew but only God knows.  To comment on Hagee and I was able to view the videos, amazing, but he states on TBN pimp-a-thon that if you let go what’s in your hand, God would let go what’s in His.  Can a man bribe God?   Not at all.  Can a man rob God?  Only if were living in the book of Malachi 3 but Hebrews 7 eliminated that.  Hagee demonstrates that we should run as far away as possible from him and his doctrine.  It has been over a year since I’ve fellowshipped myself.  I once attended a COGIC church in the north.  I turned to God TV yesterday morning and Benny Hinn and his ministry was on (its been a good while since I’ve watched tv ministries) and some man named Bishop Ulmer stated whomever is watching used to be faithful but stopped because they felt that they’ve made some bad choices and now they feel that God is angry with them. You would think the man was talking to me.  However, it could be anyone watching that broadcast.  IC,  I remembered when you had a blog on Benny Hinn when you describe him as a broken clock being right once in a while.  You have to be careful with those folks because after that, he talks about sowing a seed and I’m not falling for that.  I have never dealt with tv ministries in that manner.  To add, I take it to being faithful as to being a church goer.  I do miss the saints up there as well as my old co-workers for they were like my second family. 

  20. IndependentConservative Says:

    Art123, I do hope you are able to find an assembly of saints in your area that is standing on sound doctrine.  We are the family of God and you need people around you who follow Him in truth.  Please keep searching.

  21. Gxg--G2 Says:

    I actually had someone say that there was no need for them to be plugged in to a fellowship where there were elders, deacons, and leaders. In their view, the Holy Spirit was all that they neeeded, here husband was her pastor (going off of the Scripture that the head of the woman is the man, and of the man Christ) many of the things they were needed for are obselete nowadays since we can read/have our own bibles and the people back then were illiterate and needed oversight (though I find that odd since we have a MYRIAD OF PEOPLE today with  with their own Bibles and yet things have gotten WORSE, WHETHER IT BE DUE TO PEOPLE NOT READING THEIR BIBLE or COMING UP WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS OF IT)

    Does anyone have any thoughts?

  22. trayjay Says:

    Good morning, everyone!  There are a couple of new churches here in my area that I intend to try out.  But for now, I just need time to regroup.  I am one of those people whose fire lights up when I hear any kind of teaching in Church related to the New Age, or mysticism, or with Eastern Philosophy, when that teaching incorporates, influences, or encourages these things in any way.  An example is that my pastor did a teaching using a quote by C.G. Jung; a man who was clearly into Buddhism, Hinduism and New Age thought.  I don’t know how much he knows about New Age or the others, but to me it sets a clear picture that when preparing his sermons, there is no consultation with the Lord.  My church doesn’t get so much into the money thing, a little, but not too much.  But the area that I have been called by God to expound truth about is the area of spiritual warfare (teaching people the truth about this stuff; like why Christians cannot do yoga, etc.), in accordance to Jeremiah 1:5-10, to root out and pull down, to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant.  That being said, I realize that I must be in a Church setting in order to do that, although I have been and am doing that on more personal one-on-one levels.  Right now, though, I just need time to allow the Lord to deal with me so that when He is ready to show me where I need to be, whether at my current church or somewhere else, I can do it with the boldness that He intended.  There may be some in the church who God would set up divine appointments for us to converse with that may never hear the truth except from us, so I know there are many important reasons for going to Church.  I appreciate the words of encouragement from I.C. and godlysoldier.  I will be praying for you as well.  I am absolutely determined to tell people the truth and I’ve dealt with rejection all my life so I could care less about being thrown out or called a heretic (been there).  I’ve also been labeled a troublemaker and I wear the badge well.  If telling someone that using the word Karma is a proclamation against the truth of God Word, so be it.  (In case someone doesn’t know, Karma is a Hindu term that basically says that how you live this current life is determined by what you did in a past life, and that your next reincarnated life is determined by what kind of life you are living now.  But the Bible says it is appointed for man once to die, and then the judgment.  Hebrews 9:27)  Back to the subject at hand, people like Hagee are springing up not just on TBN, but even in our neighborhood churches and I know that God has set up people like us to “turn over the moneychangers tables.”  God bless.

  23. art123 Says:

    No disrespect, but I am confused with comment #22.

  24. art123 Says:

    Are you embracing Hinduism or Christianity?  The scripture does say you cannot serve two masters.

  25. AndyB Says:

    She’s embracing Christianity, art. She was saying that what burns her bunyons is when these snakes start quoting New-age drivel or trying to incorporate it with Christ (things like yoga, transcendental meditation, etc).

  26. art123 Says:

    Ok, I re-read it and misunderstood.  Apologies.

  27. trayjay Says:

    Nicely said, AndyB.  No need to apologize, art.  You are so forgiven.

  28. KingsKid Says:

    I became certain that Hagee is one that "holds the truth in unrighteousness", when in one of his sermons he said, "Joseph sent the Egyptians out of the room so that he could show his brothers his circumcision", also in the same sermon he said that the Egyptians were gentiles.  I wrote a him a letter and broke the whole scenario down through the scriptures, that Egyptians were Hamites and that Gentiles are from the lineage of Japheth.  His people responded that, "you seem knowledgable, however our Ministry is growing in leaps and bounds and we do not have the time to research the issue"  My translation:  we are making money hand over fist, so we don’t need to factual.

    I think Hagee is a proponent of "replacement theology" because when he read the scripture below instead of Jews he read "say they are the church, and are not".

    Revelations 3:9,  somebody is blaspheming out there to say they are Jews. 

    Peace

  29. IndependentConservative Says:

    My translation:  we are making money hand over fist, so we don’t need to factual.

    And a very good translation that is!  You should post the documents.

    Hagee has been overtaken by these "revelations" of his own (or Satan’s) creation.  All delusion.

  30. art123 Says:

    In response to comment #28, the Egyptians were gentiles so yes Hagee was right in that aspect.  When you read Genesis 10, it gives you the genealogy of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.  In Genesis 9 chapter, Noah cursed Ham for looking at his nakedness in his drunken sleep and told his brothers.  Out of Shem, God blessed Abraham and his seed in Genesis 22:15-18.  That’s how the Jews became the chosen people.  So many nations, even today including the Ethopians claim that they are the chosen Jews and that’s why I commented in #19 that anybody can say that they are Jews, but only God knows the true lineage and seed.  However, I do not believe it is the Ethopians because their Hamitic seed is cursed, according to Genesis.

  31. IndependentConservative Says:

    Art123, I wonder why Hagee’s bunch never looked into it to offer that response?

    I know even with secular matters, I’ve once mentioned something to the History channel via a message I sent them, that I was incorrect on.  In all their money making, they had time to send me a note to correct me and offer details to support them being correct.

  32. godlysoldier Says:

    Wow Trayjay, Jer 1 is what God showed me almost 10 years ago when I came back to church after being in a backslidden state for almost 10 years.  I now understand why He put that word in my heart, because of what I’d be facing today (I have a heart for evangelism and my passion and ministry is street witnessing) But as I was growing and learning in the church, the boldness I had to preach "Jesus and Him crucified" without extra biblical babble just didn’t sit well with my COGIC Pastor’s .  I would question things and then be corrected by the COGIC manual…NOT the "bible!"  I have no personal vendetta against anyone or any COGIC church, but I had to really know in my heart that I was a child of God based on repentance and accepting Jesus as Lord and NOT what man thought of me or tried to confine me to according to some extra-biblical man-ual.  Then the last church I was in, which was non-denomination was wonderful…at first, then gradually I began to see a shift, which became evident that if you didn’t act like, walk like, talk like, preach like (basically "clone")  the Pastor then you were "overlooked."  I was in the Minister’s Training program and was basically told that we’d catch a "Miriam Spirit" and the consequences if we didn’t "imitate" the Mand of Gawd!  My spirit literally came through my chest after that class.  I truly understand and have respect for church leadership, but to be told that God will only speak to us through the Man & Woman of God and that they are our only revelation and vistion from God, then that’s "heresy" at it’s finest.  The Holy Ghost in me just wouldn’t let me go back to those classes.  I was pretty hurt at the time because I "thought" I had finally found a sound ministry where I could "stir up the gift" that God placed in me and grow in further knowledge of the word. I still have a few friends that I speak with there, however, at this point, I have to go through "detox"right now from church as I knew it until the Lord leads me to a church that teaches the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth…so help me God…I will find one! In the mean time, God is revealing His truth to me through His Holy Spirit and His word, as well as blogs like this and a few other people in my life that have recently had scales fall off their eyes. Psa 32:8 says "He will instruct us and teach us the way we should go…He will guide us with His eye"  I love that verse…it shows how personal God wants to be in our lives and how He desires to lead us wherever we go.  I didn’t mean to go this long or get off the Hagee topic, but to see a few others in the place of being "in-between" church and seeking truth  truly let’s me know that broad is the road that leads to destruction and many are traveling on it, but narrow is the path that leads to righteouness, and few are finding it.  I pray all our feet remain on the narrow path!  Have a blessed evening all! 

  33. art123 Says:

    godlysoldier and all:
    I can identify with you for I went to a COGIC church.  Though I haven’t fellowship since 2006, I can recall  hearing sayings from the pastor to don’t speak out against the man of god or you would be cursed or don’t speak out against your fellow saints or God will give you a incurable disease.  Another one, you must follow the vision of your pastor whom the Holy Ghost is speaking through and if you don’t follow it, damnation can come to you.  I recall one day he spoke of a man whom once attended the church whom got into it with the pastor and he told him that damnation should come to him and listen to him.  Well, according to their story, the man was found dead outside on the road and the police found the address to the church in his pocket and notified them that he was dead.  They gave funeral services for this man but claimed that he could be burning in hell right now.  Also, there’s your slain in the spirit and speaking in tongues to be saved and go to the next level of spirituality.  Although I truly missed the saints that I used to fellowship with, I had doubts about certain things before I left.  When we had Tuesday night classes and Sunday school, I remembered that the teachers didn’t like for my hand to go up for questions and comments about the bible, and I would get shunned at times.  I believe that it kinda got worse when I stepped to him after service and told him that the scripture said that Jesus didn’t die for everybody, only the elect of Israel.  However, he did mention during service, especially when we were at the altar that God wants to use me but I don’t know how, considering He would’nt want to use me as a woman preacher, for the scripture made that clear.  If we are all one body like the bible said and if someone has something to share in order to edify, isn’t that alright.  Most of the teachers there were women and it didn’t dawn on me at the time that they’re not allowed to do so.  Correct me if I’m wrong but God still works miracles even though the five fold ministries ended with the apostles.  May we continue in our journey to Christ.

  34. art123 Says:

    IC, in response to your comment in #31, it is obvious that these folks are running a business.  I was also reading at pulpit pimps website about a worshipper who was paying tithes faithfully until the person lost their job and had to collect unemployment.  The person reached out to this mega church for help, but they refused because they told the person you need to catch up in your tithes.  It is a shame that a secular institution has to take the slack for the church who is up to no good.  I wonder what Paul meant when he said that he robbed churches to do them services.  They were possibly pulling that same crap as they do today.

  35. IndependentConservative Says:

    When Paul said he "robbed churches" in 2 Corinthians 11:8, he was simply saying that he had actually accepted donations from the saints in Macedonia. Really if you read from 2 Corinthians 7 up through 11 you get the full picture about that. He called it "robbing" because it was unusual for him to accept anything.  He typically asked for nothing and cared for himself and those with him by work of his own hands, Acts 20:34. But when he reached Macedonia he and those with him were in terrible shape. So he broke his usual protocol. But in 2 Cor. 11 you see that while he accepted from the Macedonians, he did not take from others. Since the Macedonians met his needs and were taking care of him he went to others for free, intentionally to cut off those who were false. Really Paul was not saying pastors should not accept pay, he said they should live off donations from the saints in 1 Cor. 9. He himself tried not to accept pay. He and other apostles lived in conditions that they did not recommend others had to endure, while they said others should imitate them (1 Corinthians 4), strive towards their high mark. So a pastor has a balancing act. He is at full liberty to make a living off preaching the gospel, but he has to do it in a manner that prevents him from being a burden on the church. Also the pastor has to avoid greed, which is the issue too many who claim church leadership have today.  As we see, with the greedy, it becomes more than just an issue of greed, their doctrine ends up in the toilet too.  The saints should be more than willing to care for a good elder, 1 Timothy 5:17.

  36. stan Says:

    IC, have you already seen this webpage? http://www.flashfloods.com/blast/0705v5PrafRE/dec057.html
    Apparently Hagee is going to rewrite chapter one of his latest book due to a scholarly rebuttal sent to him by an unnamed evangelical with whom he has also dialogued. It will be interesting to see if and how he follows through on this agreement.

    Of course, his "non-targeting of Jews" for conversion remains  one of the most disturbing issues I have ever heard of about a nationally-recognized minister. 

  37. IndependentConservative Says:

    Thank you for the update Stan.

    I’ve seen John Hagee in Galatians 1:8-9 terms since first hearing of his "dual covenant" nonsense and I highly suspect, that while he might adjust the book he’ll continue to promote heresy that is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Basically, if that changed book does not say:
    Jesus is Messiah and only those who believe on Him will not perish, no matter if they are Jew or Gentile.
    Than he’s still deserving of the title given to him in this post.  I’ll hold to that until he can speak the truth of Hebrews 8:13.

  38. stan Says:

    It’s hard to understand why someone would go out of their way to make such statements about Jesus’ Messiahship. After all, If Jesus had not been sent to Israel to be the Messiah, then the apostles Peter and Paul got it exactly backward by presenting Him thus to the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea and in the synagogues of Asia Minor and Greece. Therefore, Hagee has set Scripture against itself in a major way.

  39. IndependentConservative Says:

    It’s hard to understand why someone would go out of their way to make such statements about Jesus’ Messiahship.

    It’s not hard to figure it.  It’s because of a desire for honor among men and money.  Hagee would rather be with the folks in Israel with the money and prestige, who have no desire to spread the Gospel message.  Never mind that small faction of Messianic Jews, who know Jesus is the Messiah and need help spreading the message in Israel.

    Yea, if Peter and Paul were around, guess who Hagee would be hanging out with!  (Not Peter and Paul.)

  40. IndependentConservative Says:

    Stan, I’m calling John Hagee’s claims to revise the book bogus. It has been almost a year since the book’s initial release and no revised edition has been released. Unless you know something I don’t?

    stan reply on August 20th, 2008 at 11:16 am :

    I agree with you, IC. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt for a reasonable time (which has been up for a while). With these celebrity ministers, only seeing is believing.

    I wonder if the ministry that reported it has given up. I’ll see if I can find that bookmark.

    IndependentConservative reply on August 20th, 2008 at 11:44 am :

    I think you linked it in a comment above.

    stan reply on August 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm :

    You’re right. I forgot. I found it in #36. I just emailed them to ask if they’ve heard anything about his promise. Also, (and really) to alert them to their misplaced optimism concerning the fact that nothing of what he agreed to has been forthcoming.

    stan reply on August 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm :

    I received this email today from the ministry in the link in reply #36.

    I share it here:

    Stan:
    From what I’ve heard, Hagee has ‘promised’ to rewrite the book. But no one knows when or if that will happen. That’s all I know at this point. I have not followed the issue or Hagee closely since the news broke awhile ago.

    He did rewrite the chapter in question several months ago when the controversy broke. The unanimous concensus among scholarly and reputable evangelicals was that his revision was unacceptable. So he promised to rewrite the book. We’ll have to wait and see.

    In the meantime, Hagee continues to act as spokesman and Director of ‘Christians United for Israel’. In my opinion, that is a travesty. I cannot legitimize his ministry re. Israel until he comes totally clean on this whole matter. The Body of Christ suffers as a result through confusion, false doctrine and mixed messages.

    Don Geraci

    IndependentConservative reply on August 20th, 2008 at 6:37 pm :

    Looks like Don Geraci can see through Hagee’s smoke.

    But what is a “rewritten” chapter if all you do is pass it around to people who approve and don’t put in a new revision of the book that is still being sold?

    Never has Hagee pulled his book of heresy, which proves he has no urgency to do so and really beleives what is in the initial release.

    stan reply on August 20th, 2008 at 9:25 pm :

    My guess is that Hagee passed the rewritten chapter around first to the scholars for a peer-review, and it did not get the endorsement he hoped for from them. So, as you suggest, he’s refusing to abandon his initial premise of the book which caused the backlash he’s still getting.

    Abandoning the premise means that the controversy he wishes to create will vanish and therefore he believes that will translate into lower sales for the book. It’s all about “peddling the Word of God;” something Paul refused to do – and something every conscientious believer should also refuse to do.

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