Rekjalhew

November 29, 2007

Paula White Wishes You “Happy Holidays”??!!! Afraid to say “Merry Christmas”? (*Update: Juanita Bynum Too.*)

by @ 4:32 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade

Now here’s the deal, if someone who does not claim the Lord’s name does not desire to say “Merry Christmas” to me, I’m not going to get uptight at all. I’ll see if there is an opportunity to speak to them about Christ and more than a simple “Christmas” story. Because more is needed than the holiday made up by the Vatican. Someone saying “Merry Christmas” is not going to save a soul. Even if someone is Christian, they can opt not to acknowledge the holiday made up by the Vatican, while still having full faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I don’t follow a “pope”, I’m not beholden to the Vatican, but just the same I’m OK with the Christmas holiday. I think whether one decides to acknowledge it comes down their own decision on the matter.

Romans 14:5-6 (New American Standard Bible)

5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

And we know from Colossians 2, that no one is to be judged in respect to a festival, day of the week like the Sabbath or a holiday observance. But for those who wish to claim the Lord’s name and acknowledge Christmas, than by all means do it for the Lord. Don’t water it down with claims of things like “Happy Holidays”.

Let’s be straight up frank about this, the other events getting ready to take place are not trying to acknowledge the Lord for who we now full well know He is. Hanukkah I’m not against, because it’s based on observance of a miracle from almighty God, but most observing that holiday knowingly forsake the Lord Jesus Christ. They forsake the triune nature of God, although it is in Hebrew scripture. They forsake the work of Christ. So we work to evangelize to Jews the message of Christ, because we love them. Then there is Kwanzaa, which I’m totally against and have detailed why already. We work to evangelize to all the message of Christ, because we love them.

I’d never want to cause any confusion by using a term such as “Happy Holidays” at this time of year, given I observe Christmas and want to carry that message beyond the story of Christ’s birth in flesh. Jesus existed before time began, was crucified for our sins, resurrected and sits on the right hand of the Father. Having had His Father send His Holy Spirit for we who love Him, as our comforter. Just the “Christmas story” is not sufficient, but I’ve got no problem with recognizing when He came to earth in flesh. Although no where in scripture are we told to make a holiday out of it and the early church never made a holiday of it. I could get into the pagan Winter festival aspects, but the bottom line is that I celebrate the Lord everyday and don’t have an issue with acknowledging a day as special remembrance of His coming to earth in flesh because of God’s love for us.

Having said all that, I would expect a person who claims the Lord’s name, to at least be able to say “Merry Christmas”, if they put a holiday greeting on their web site today. Same if they do so today and the greeting pictures them putting an ornament on a tree. Not that a pine tree is a special Christian symbol, we know it has a history of pagan origins, but putting a decorated tree in your house is not going to harm your relationship with God, if you don’t look to a false god. Today a decorated pine tree is not generally viewed as anything pagan, so it should not harm anyone’s conscience. Still if you want to send a greeting today and it has such an image and you wish to do things as unto the Lord, best to direct it towards something that acknowledges Christ and say “Merry Christmas”. That’s just what I would hope to see when someone who claims the Lord’s name might put up their greeting that is acknowledging a holiday this time of year.

So look at what our friend reader Solideogloriafella found when going to Paula White’s web site today:

Paula White Holidays

Now I really didn’t want to jump on Paula White again so soon after noting how her new book is a terrible thing to give to anyone including yourself, but this being time sensitive material I had to put it up now. I’m just saying, since she did this as part of “Paula White Ministries” it would seem you would not want anyone to think you’re observing something that is anti-Christ like Kwanzaa. Not that she has any place to claim church leadership in the first place for so many reasons, but this really shows how she desires to stand for secularism and not Christ.

update 11/30/2007 10:51AM: A reader of this blog named Evette left the following tip:

Juanita Bynum’s website also says Happy Holidays.

I’ve checked Juanita Bynum’s web site and sure enough, she’s got this huge “Happy Holidays” graphic as her front page background and even puts her signature on it.

Just perhaps all this will help someone who follows after them to see what they are about.

update 11/30/2007 3:51PM: A reader of the blog using the handle kkia left this comment:

I just went to Paula’s site and it now says “Merry Christmas”. Very interesting…

I just checked and confirmed, Paula White’s folks have changed the wording under the graphic to say “Merry Christmas”.? Hey Paula, do you mind changing the wording inside your new book now too?? Turn from that prosperity doctrine heresy you spew.? Just step down and repent woman.



25 Responses to “Paula White Wishes You “Happy Holidays”??!!! Afraid to say “Merry Christmas”? (*Update: Juanita Bynum Too.*)”

  1. SoliDeoGloriaFella Says:

    I did  get a chance to catch the Larry King interview with Paula White, thanks man…

    It is a shame that She is willing to conform to the politically correct standards of the American culture.
    The Merry Christmas phrase is not an essential of the Christian faith. But, it shows that you are willing to acknowledge Jesus Christ during this holiday.
    In a world of secularism the phrase "Merry Christmas" is not looked upon favorably.

    Secularism seek to erase all traces of the name of Christ in our nation. School prayer, "In God we trust", "One Nation Under God", "Merry Christmas."

    It is just disappointing to see people who claim to be Christians giving way to the secularist’s agenda. 

  2. GaryV Says:

    Next year it’ll be "A Joyous Winter Solstice".

  3. Evette Says:

    Juanita Bynum’s website also says Happy Holidays.

  4. Dru Says:

    I know it is one thing if you did not know the pagan origin’s, but if you do know the pagan origins and the false god worship involved, why would you still want to celebrate christmas? Would it have been ok for the hebrews to borrow the egyptian false god worship practises and then use it to put the false gods alongside God?

    What fellowship do Santa, the red nose Reindeer, and the easter bunny have with Jesus Christ? You cannot take something that is pagan and make it mean what you want it to mean. It just seems wrong to be supporting and approving this practise, but that is just my five penny’s

    God Bless

    Dru

  5. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru – If your issue is that you cannot do anything that may have once had a pagan association, than do you feel all who have their church assembly meetings on Sunday are being disobedient?

    The pagan Winter Festival never had Santa or reindeer.  Also the story behind Santa is far from pagan, see my old post: Black Santa, White Santa.  Still I don’t play up those things, but to you promote Christ, 1 Corinthians 2.  There is a very relevant reason why I cited verses from Romans 14 for you in this post.  Among some Christians, there was fear of eating any meat, because it might have been used in the worship of false gods.  (Plus the old Jewish restrictions against eating certain types of meats.)  Romans 14, 1 Timothy 4 as well as scripture such as 1 Corinthians 8 is where God has Paul to note, that all meat can be consumed and if the meat was not used for worship of false gods, eat it and even if it was used in idol worship, know that false gods are not the One True God and we worship God, not false gods.  If the piece of meat in your hand you know was used for idol worship, than best not to eat that piece for conscience sake, but enjoy all others.  Personally, I’m not a big fan of the "Christmas tree", but no tree anyone puts in their home today was ever used in idol worship.   The tree in the home of a Christian is decorated to the glory of God, with ornaments praising God for the gift of Christ.

    If I lived under the same roof as you Dru, for your sake I would not do much to promote Christmas around you.  But for my own house, I know no pagan god is true and celebrate Christmas as a day unto the Lord.

    Regarding what is called "Easter".  If you search this blog, you’ll realize I don’t promote use of the term "Easter" and always note the term has pagan origins.  (And for you KJV-only fans, that translation of scripture is the only English translation that uses the term "Easter".)  The term "CHRISTmas" is not like the term "Easter".  If my neighbor worships Satan on 11/30/2007 and calls it "happy satan day" and I decide I’ll worship God and His Son the Lord Jesus on 11/30/2007 and call it "happy Jesus day", am I disobedient?

    The "Easter bunny" has pagan roots, yet today nobody looks at a bunny to worship anything.  I don’t promote an "Easter bunny" here, but think you need to recognize when something is simply viewed as a rabbit to the masses.  It’s no longer viewed or used as something pagan, so let it go.

    If you desire to rid yourself of all things pagan, throw away all your money.  It’s loaded with pagan symbols.

    Now having said that, while I don’t harp about things already generally in practice that are not connected with paganism today, but might have facets once from pagan practices.  I do seek to avoid doing anything "new" that involves pagan associations such at yoga and that is being used to lead people straight to its ungodly roots.  Yoga is only done as an exercise in "inner self".  You can see in this post there was a long debate on yoga.  I stand against it, but I can’t say one who does it and attempts to avoid certain aspects is in sin, but best to leave it alone in my opinion.

  6. IndependentConservative Says:

    Evette – See the update in this post.

  7. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru, to be clear, while I don’t make a habit of using the term "Easter", I do also celebrate the resurrection of Christ on the day many call "Easter".  To me is it Resurrection Sunday.

  8. Dru Says:

    Hi IC,

    My point is a simple one. To me it is like saying ‘hmmmmm Ramadan is a good concept, let me celebrate Jesus, along side/in place of Muhammad.’ I dont think Christians need to borrow or adapt concepts or practises of false religions, be it islam or other another.

    I dont believe there is a general census on santa claus/father christmas/saint nick but I know that a man flying by ‘magic’ deers has nothing to do with Jesus, nor belong on the same table. In anycase they would have no place in my house in picture form, statues or any form that show glory, praise, recognition or approval.

    I dont understand your question about Sunday assembly, but if it is about Sabbath vs Sunday, I believe Paul has address this already.

    Although I trade with money, I do not celebrate it with any significate biblical meaning. I am not aware the barter system is pagan, or the currency of exchange, and I do avoid paganism once I become aware. We only serve the one God IC.

    At the end of the day, it seems like we are following/in-fellowship with the world on this when they should be following us. The whole idea that the world is getting drunk, fornicating, smoking pot or whatever they do now, and tell me that it is under the banner of christianity offends me. It looks more like satan than Christ mate. Thank you very much but not thanks. I guess we all have to walk our walk

    I’ll celebrate the fact that Jesus was born, died and was resurrected for me everyday that I live, giving thanks for Grace, not on a day or days set by a pope? Sorry to the ‘pope’ but I do not recongnise your authority or your practises.

    Big fan your site and youtube videos IC. Keep standing strong for rightousness

  9. IndependentConservative Says:

    Hi Dru,

    You mentioned:

    My point is a simple one. To me it is like saying ‘hmmmmm Ramadan is a good concept, let me celebrate Jesus, along side/in place of Muhammad.’

    Here’s the deal and it’s how we have Christmas in the first place.  If I speak to some Muslims about Christ and those Muslims who used to fast during Ramadan because of what Islam teaches accept Christ and desire to fast at that same time of year for Christ, I’ve got no problem with that.  You’re going beyond the bounds of Christian Liberty into legalism.  If this is how you feel for yourself that is fine, but not a burden for you to place on others.

    I dont understand your question about Sunday assembly, but if it is about Sabbath vs Sunday, I believe Paul has address this already.

    OK then, if a Christian household desires to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th, that is their option.  What others do in their house has no bearing on Christians acknowledging the day towards Christ.

    If the marketplace is not ungodly, why did Christ throw the money changers out of the temple?  Yet we deal with money and most Christians work in the business marketplace daily.  You keep bringing up reindeer and such, which I don’t worship and have told you I promote to you Christ.  Should I stop buying Peter Pan peanut butter because a "magic" flying character is on the jar?  The flying man and his supposed "magic" mean nothing to me, but if they trouble you, please don’t eat Peter Pan products.  If Christmas troubles you, please have nothing to do with it.  I’m not in any way saying you need to acknowledge it in any way, shape or form.  I am also saying that you have failed to provide a foundation for admonishing anyone else on the topic, to act like you just because it’s your preference.  I still have Romans 14:5-6, to support my looking at December 25th as a holiday unto the Lord and likewise respecting your view not to have anything to do with Christmas.

    At the end of the day, it seems like we are following/in-fellowship with the world on this when they should be following us.

    We follow the Lord and unless or until someone in the world comes to know Him, they will never see any day as we do.  What they do with it is not in my area of judgment, they are outside, 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.  This post exists because people like Paula White and Juanita Bynum claim to be "inside", they claim the name of the Lord and THEY ARE showing that they desire to follow as the world is doing.  Not fully acknowledging the day towards Christ while they choose to acknowledge a "holiday".  My point, if someone does not desire to acknowledge 12/25 as a holiday, fine, but if they claim the Lord’s name and acknowledge 12/25 as a holiday than do so unto the Lord, not whatever suits the world.

    I’ve already addressed days of celebration and the pope in my post.

  10. kkia Says:

    I just went to Paula’s site and it now says “Merry Christmas”. Very interesting…

  11. IndependentConservative Says:

    kkia – Ha!  That is too funny!  I just checked and you’re right.  They have changed it.  Notice how jittery the lettering looks though?  Compare that with how smooth the lettering was in the original graphic.  You can tell they did a quick change to it.

    Thanks for the tip.

  12. Dru Says:

    Hi IC,

    Santa, Elves, Peter Pan, Dark Vader, or even Harry Potter. These are all debatable as they stand and in their own area. But to bring them before God as a positive dedication to Jesus as/during worship? Do I really need to provide foundation on this one IC?

    I am not the one that died on the cross so would never tell anyone to be like me, nor am I attempting to place anyone under the bondage of the law. But I’m sure liberty in Christ does not mean you are free to do as you wish without consequence.  My question is still why would you want to fellowship with the world by adapting their ‘Christmass‘ practices? You did not ‘find’ the 25th of December, you adapted it. You can change the name of the winter festive holiday add or subtract a character or two, but a rose by any other name is still a rose my friend. It is still pagan like its origin. Would Halloween be ok if they called it Christoween? Would it then be ok to put the witches and Jack O’lantern around while we worship on that day? Why do we even need their days? We got all we need in salvation.

  13. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru,

    You said:

    Santa, Elves, Peter Pan, Dark Vader, or even Harry Potter. These are all debatable as they stand and in their own area. But to bring them before God as a positive dedication to Jesus as/during worship? Do I really need to provide foundation on this one IC?

    How many times DO I NEED TO REPEAT, that I don’t bring those to you, but have continually promoted CHRIST?

    How am I being like the world if I’m praising the Lord and they are not?

    a rose by any other name is still a rose my friend.

    That is Shakespeare, not scripture.  But still I’m praising the Lord, not a tree or mistletoe.  Praising the Lord daily and can show thanks for Christ coming to man on today and will on 12/25 too.

    If I’m praising the Lord and an unbeliever is getting drunk, I think God can see the clear difference.  Even unbelievers see it.  That’s why they ask me why I don’t drink up my fill with them and then I have an opportunity to talk about why.  But you avoid every event where there might be unbelievers.  I ask you to read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 again. 

    Would Halloween be ok if they called it Christoween? Would it then be ok to put the witches and Jack O’lantern around while we worship on that day? Why do we even need their days? We got all we need in salvation.

    Every day is a day for me to praise the Lord and if I desire to acknowledge Christmas on a day and praise the Lord, who are you to say otherwise?  If it was not about you trying to make others like yourself, you’d accept the truth of Romans 14:5-6.

    Buddy, please keep your legalism to yourself.

  14. IndependentConservative Says:

    I have to add, on 10/31 some saints see it fitting to keep their porch light on and hand out Christian reading materials with candy to children who come to their doorstep.  That night I typically keep my light off, but have nothing against those who leverage the night for ministry.  I might even do like them myself one day.

  15. Dru Says:

    IC,
    I totally accept Romans 14:5-6 as I do the entire Bible my friend, but it was never about Sunday vs Saturday, or the law of moses. It was about:
    2 Corinthians 6:14-17
    Eph 5: 5-10
    If you believe that I have read this wrong then fine, please correct me, but please don’t accuse me of legalism, this is the apostle Paul after all?
    I mention Santa and his associates to you simply because you mentioned your desire to find goods relating to him for your children in Black Santa, White Santa. When you see him in the mall, the others are not to far behind. When people put their children on their laps, IC, I found it hard to relate this with praising the Lord or His birthday.
    No Legalism here, just questioning why.

    Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my concern on your blog.

    God Bless

  16. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru,

    You mention 2 Corinthians 6:14-17.  Whether one of my kids takes a picture with a man in a red suit, a character such as Spider-Man or any other, these are fictitious figures and to my children they are treated as such.  Not as God.  How is it that my own parents were able to help me see the difference between Santa and God, while you feel a picture with a Santa figure is to partner with darkness? You don’t see it, but you really are holding to a form of legalism. 

    You’ve also cited Ephesians 5:5-10.  I think reading Ephesians 5 in full blows away any notion that God has the apostle Paul referring to a pic with some guy in a red suit that nobody (in my house) is looking to as a god.  Although there are people who worship trees.  I guess I should not have my kids take a picture outside in front of a tree either.

    Brother, you’re really off into forbidding things that are nothing more than play for children.  Dru, do you have children?  Do you keep them from taking pictures with any fictional characters?

    And in regards to fictional figures, Santa is the only one based on someone who tried to give as noted in Matthew 6:1-4.  It’s play for children, did you play as a child?

    You’ve taken children play things and turned them into evil.  Plenty of Christian households are able to let their children play with toys, eat candy, take a picture with some guy acting like Santa and still realize those are for fun while there is a real God in Heaven who sent His Son for us.

    Again Dru, you don’t care for these things, keep away from them.  You’ve offered terrible reasoning for trying to forbid others though.  Why do I let them take pictures with Santa, BECAUSE THEY ARE CHILDREN.

  17. Dru Says:

    Hey IC,
    So I’m a bad dad for not celebrating Christmas with the kids? whilst you accuse me of legalism, you have Christmas as sacred. My days, you defend it to the bone. I’ll leave your beloved Christmas alone IC, But watch this. There can only be one of use right and the other wrong. If you are right and I am wrong, then I lose nor gain anything and am not in danger of approving what was or is a false god worship.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

    But if I am right, and Santa is the German Odin wodan, or the Dutch saint nick or the 17th century father Christmas or the Santa goblin, or even Satan miss spelled,  and this is the same thing that Paul was talking about, then I know I do not need to tell you the repercussions. But why take the risk of involvement in a at least potential false god worship in one degree or the next? You have everything to lose but nothing to gain, and only satan likes them odds. And PLEASE tell me how, my position on opposing false god worship in all its form, adds up to legalism?

    YES IC, They are Children, and WE are the parents, by God and all that is holy, me and my house will worship the Lord, it is not cute if they worship santa. Jesus said to suffer the little children to come unto me. Isn’t He enough? Why cant He be their hero? Why teach them a pagan myth for presents and not salvation? God should be glorified not satan….sorry santa. The Kids will be unpopular for one day for the year, but they will be unpopular as Christians IC.

    Wait, am legalistic because I don’t conform to the world and practice worldly rituals? is that it? because I denied who I was and gave up false god worship (Worldly music and pagan celebrations) when I came to Jesus? I don’t get it……..
     

  18. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru, again you press to lock someone into your view of a day instead of allowing saints Liberty regarding something that it has already been explained is never used to try and forsake Christ.

    So I’m a bad dad for not celebrating Christmas with the kids?

    My question to you was not about Christmas, let’s see what I asked:

    Do you keep them from taking pictures with any fictional characters?

    That is what I asked, now will you answer?  I have no idea why you’re asking me about you being good or bad as a parent in relation to Christmas.  But you can answer my question.

    You desire to bind saints in legalism to the bone, that’s my only issue.  It is my blog, do I not have the right to respond on what is my own?

    You claim there can only be right and wrong, but perhaps promotion of legalism is not right if that be the case?  A picture with a fictional character that is treated as such is no sin.

    But why take the risk of involvement in a at least potential false god worship in one degree or the next?

    Because it’s not false god worship.  I don’t tell my kids some magic man is doing anything.

    You have everything to lose but nothing to gain, and only satan likes them odds.

    Brother, if you like life in a box, don’t try and pull others in the box of your own creation.

    And PLEASE tell me how, my position on opposing false god worship in all its form, adds up to legalism?

    Because something that is not in any way being treated as a god of any sort is something you’re admonishing saints about as if our souls are at stake over it.  That would be LEGALISM.  Because you ARE WRONG.

    Isn’t He enough? Why cant He be their hero? Why teach them a pagan myth for presents and not salvation? God should be glorified not satan….sorry santa. The Kids will be unpopular for one day for the year, but they will be unpopular as Christians IC.

    Of course Christ is enough.  Can I not eat a cheese pizza?  Must I eat unleavened bread my whole life?  Children having fun, playing and enjoying some fiction is not a turn from Christ.  Sure they will face things for their beliefs, as did I, but just as my own parents were able to manage raising me I’m confident I can do the same for my children.  And I am able to grasp that Santa is not real.

    By the way, I did a little more research than a Wikipedia article for my post where I note the background for the character that is Santa.

    Wait, am legalistic because I don’t conform to the world and practice worldly rituals? is that it? because I denied who I was and gave up false god worship (Worldly music and pagan celebrations) when I came to Jesus? I don’t get it……..

    Dru, you simply took yourself into a box for fear of judgment.  If that works for you fine.

  19. Dru Says:

    IC,
    I did my research before I even knew the website existed. I have not practice christmas for many years before I got married. fell out with my mom and dad over it, and ridiculed every year at work for it.
    I do not keep them from any fiction character. But any demonic character (Tarot) , or false god, or anybody in the way of Christ is a no.
    I only touched one issue, but you seem to enjoy taking me all over the place. If you validate an argument else where, does it validate Christmas? Where are your scriptures that encourage your practice? When did Jesus say to worship his birthday? He didnt, but the Pope did. I say again, it is not about the day or observation of holy days. It is not about what you eat or not eat. Not the Sabbath or pork, IC, not tithe. Christmas is once a year, how one earth am I living the other 364 days in a box?
    If you must say I am about Legalism, back yourself up. What Law of Moses am I promoting IC? Where did it say thou shall not celebrate Christmas? (I have read and understand Galatians and dispute your legalism claims on me)
    But I tell you, what I challenge what is not a gospel. Christmas is not Biblical.
    Just never told us to celebrate His birthday. Nobody did. I am not in error or danger.
    Your website, but A question? Where did it ever even LOOK acceptable to take a idolatry pagan holiday and put Jesus in it and give it to God in the Bible? Scripture please, because all I can find is ‘STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY!’ both Old Testament (Legal) and New (Grace). Please show me a scripture, don’t worry, I’ll wait.

  20. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru, while I totally disagree with you, I do thank you for loving a brother enough to share your opinion given you think if I’m wrong I could somehow end up in hell over it.  Your wrong, but it’s nice to know that you care 🙂 .

    I do not keep them from any fiction character. But any demonic character (Tarot) , or false god, or anybody in the way of Christ is a no.

    Ah, so you’re upset I let my kids take a pic with a fictional character, but don’t keep your kids from them.  Because you’ve got a view of Santa beyond being a simple fictional character, you feel I need to avoid it.  Well Dru, Santa is nothing more than another fictional character in my household although fun for pictures.  I’m sorry, but I don’t select the fictional characters my children can enjoy from your pre-approved list

    Where are your scriptures that encourage your practice?

    I’m sorry, you must have missed all the scriptures already posted that grant me the Liberty to do so.

    When did Jesus say to worship his birthday?

    When did Jesus say I’d be in sin if I did?

    What Law of Moses am I promoting IC?

    It’s more like, what law have you created of your own fears?  You’ve created one that says "thou shalt not do it if others like it".

    Where did it say thou shall not celebrate Christmas?

    Well that’s a question I should be asking you, don’t ya think?

    Christmas is not Biblical.

    Christ’s birth is recorded in the Bible.  What’s not in the Bible is God seeking anyone to treat it as a special day to honor annually.  And there is no scripture forbidding it either, hence the reason I noted Romans 14:5-6 and put Christ as the main focus of the observance for my own.  Believe it or not, we didn’t even get around to a pic with Santa this year.  No big deal, because it’s not a major concern for us.

    Where did it ever even LOOK acceptable to take a idolatry pagan holiday and put Jesus in it and give it to God in the Bible? Scripture please, because all I can find is ‘STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY!’ both Old Testament (Legal) and New (Grace). Please show me a scripture, don’t worry, I’ll wait.

    Romans 14:5-6 grants me the Liberty to observe any day for the Lord.  Now let me say what I said to you before.

    Here’s the deal and it’s how we have Christmas in the first place.  If I speak to some Muslims about Christ and those Muslims who used to fast during Ramadan because of what Islam teaches accept Christ and desire to fast at that same time of year for Christ, I’ve got no problem with that.  You’re going beyond the bounds of Christian Liberty into legalism.  If this is how you feel for yourself that is fine, but not a burden for you to place on others.

    Do you celebrate your own birthday?  What in scripture says for you to celebrate your own birthday?  And if you do celebrate your own birthday, wouldn’t you be a hypocrite for admonishing anyone for having such a celebration for Jesus coming to earth in flesh?

  21. art123 Says:

    IC, when my preteen daughter was a small child, I allowed her to live out her fantasy of a Santa Claus.  I have a picture of her in pre K, sitting on Santa’s lap.  As a child, my parents also allowed the same for me and my siblings.  Like me and my siblings, my daughter grew to learn the truth, but she told me that it would be fun to have such a fantasy come true, such as Santa riding on his sleigh with his reindeers.  We were watching tonight "The Polar Express" with Tom Hanks and I admit it is a nice fantasy movie to watch, although you know that the events are not real.   Are we caught up in idolatry, knowing that its a fantasy and knowing that Christ is the true and living God?  Are we condemned to damnation for watching this film?  To add, reading the dialogue between you and Dru reminds me of the posting that Mr. Jones have at pulpit pimps called The Essentials or What would I be willing to burn at the stake for.

  22. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well Art123, I think there’s been enough exchange here for you to already know what I’d say without me saying it 🙂 .

    I’ve read Melvin’s post regarding essentials, but have not had time to engage in any of the dialog there.

  23. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dru – I have decided not to post your most recent response and ban you from my blog for several reasons:

    1. I don’t desire to close comments to this thread.
    2. We could go back and forth all year and it would be the same circular debate.
    3. Acting as if I celebrated Satan as a child is ridiculous.
    4. You never answered my question about if you are a hypocrite in the celebration of your own birthday.
    5. Appreciate your concern, but your feeling that I’m trying to praise Satan with Christ and could go to hell is basically to claim I was never sealed by the Holy Spirit in the first place.  Which although you don’t really understand is to claim I’m not saved.
    6. Not that I care to get into it, but I’m sure the fictional characters on your approved list I could connect to  folklore.
    7. Great you’d have time to continue the back and forth, but go find someone who cares to devote time to continue with you.

    Good bye and God Bless you.

  24. Called out of Eygpt Says:

    IC, we love your site,,, butttttt,,, I must say,, that  CHRISTMAS DOES NOT HONOR JESUS CHRIST.  I DID NOT WRITE THIS BUT WILL YOU PLEASE LOOK AT THIS ,,,?  THANK YOU
    http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract4.html

  25. IndependentConservative Says:

    Hi Called out of Eygpt,

    I read it and let me say up front I won’t debate this again for long.  You who do not desire to acknowledge Christmas are not under any obligation to do so, but I won’t consume all my time with your views of it.

    I say the write-up you provided a link to is historically inaccurate.

    The term "Mass" does not necessarily mean what someone can dig up in one book.  In the definition of the term "Mass" this is included in the notes:

    Note: In the Middle Ages in England, mass meant a religious feast day in honor of a specific person; thus, “Christ’s Mass,” or Christmas, is the feast day of Christ; and Michaelmas is the feast day of the angelMichael.

    You don’t want to do it, fine, but end your harping about it on my blog NOW.

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