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	<title>Comments on: Robert Schuller, Watering Down His Rotten Skim Milk Gospel Even More.</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/</link>
	<description>The Independent Conservative saying what needs to be said!</description>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-11164</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-11164</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/SC2003-QA-1.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;something John MacArthur had to say about Tony Evans, that is worth reading.&lt;/a&gt;  Once upon a time everybody thought Tony was OK, once upon a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/SC2003-QA-1.htm" rel="nofollow">something John MacArthur had to say about Tony Evans, that is worth reading.</a>  Once upon a time everybody thought Tony was OK, once upon a time.</p>
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		<title>By: Airbrush Artist</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-11163</link>
		<dc:creator>Airbrush Artist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-11163</guid>
		<description>I really Read Books only by One Christian Writer anymore in Our Current time John MacArthur,I use to enjoy Tony Evans But after seeing Him On TBN I knew the change has come ,Also I always enjoyed Max Lucado and whence I saw Jan Crouch Offering One of His Books as a Love Gift if You sent Her some quick cash,I contacted Lucado and ask why His involvement with the Crouch&#039;s and they replied that they have No restrictions on TBN offering His Books for their &quot;Love Offering&quot; at least its better than Your Official glow in the Dark Jesus Night Light that You can receive for a Offering of $500 Or more.Its sad to see Godly men Following The deceit by those who would Represent The Ministry of Jesus Christ for Wordly gain...and Fame</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really Read Books only by One Christian Writer anymore in Our Current time John MacArthur,I use to enjoy Tony Evans But after seeing Him On TBN I knew the change has come ,Also I always enjoyed Max Lucado and whence I saw Jan Crouch Offering One of His Books as a Love Gift if You sent Her some quick cash,I contacted Lucado and ask why His involvement with the Crouch&#8217;s and they replied that they have No restrictions on TBN offering His Books for their &#8220;Love Offering&#8221; at least its better than Your Official glow in the Dark Jesus Night Light that You can receive for a Offering of $500 Or more.Its sad to see Godly men Following The deceit by those who would Represent The Ministry of Jesus Christ for Wordly gain&#8230;and Fame</p>
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		<title>By: healtheland</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6739</link>
		<dc:creator>healtheland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 06:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6739</guid>
		<description>spark: &quot;From what I know, the CFR is a foreign policy think tank, and I wouldn&#8217;t have an issue with there being a true believer on the Council interjecting Truth into the foreign policy conversation.&quot; I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist on IndependentConservative&#039;s weblog because he really isn&#039;t into that stuff, but having you believe that they are just a benign foreign policy think tank is precisely what they want you to believe. CFR is a very powerful organization whose goal is economic,&#160; political, social, cultural, etc. globalism. I could get into who started, who funds, and who is confederate with the CFR, but that is beyond the scope of this conversation, though I request of you to research the matter. 

Instead, I wish to point out that religion is very much on the CFR agenda. It is probably an oversimplification to say that the CFR &quot;supports one world government&quot; (though there are certainly members of CFR that desire it), the CFR is against anything that hinders global unity. Nothing is a bigger barrier to unity than fundamentalist religions with exclusive claims. So CFR promotes religious figures that are either universalist or the next best thing (and actually better for some purposes) those with a watered - down homogenized message with a New Age component. 

It is interesting to note that Oprah Winfrey, while &quot;technically&quot; not a religious leader the most effective proponent of New Age since Shirley MaClaine (sp), has CFR ties ... her educational outreach programs for girls in Africa are through them. More to the point, the pastors that have CFR ties are generally the ones that go on Larry King and refuse to say that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. That includes none other than TD Jakes, who has CFR ties, who has famously refused at various times to commit to Jesus Christ being the only way. Incidentally, both Jakes and Warren have endorsed Christians practicing &quot;Yahweh yoga&quot;, contemplative prayer, meditation, etc. and other stuff from Hinduism and Buddhism.&#160; They are not the only ones. As a matter of fact, the pastors that are associated with CFR and their splinter groups (which is alleged to include the Center For National Policy, founded by Sun Myung Moon, the Moonies cult, but I cannot confirm it, but please know that even if it is not true being associated with Moon is bad enough) is basically a who&#039;s who of the religious right and the people on TBN and similar. Billy Graham? Ties to CFR. You are aware that no one has done more for the cause of ecumenism (the acceptance of Roman Catholics by Protestants) than Billy Graham. Please recall that Graham recently endorsed universalism in that famous Newsweek article. Time Magazine: &quot;Graham is totally representative of American religious universalism.&quot; 

You have to realize that these preachers that pop up out of nowhere with these huge churches, massive and generally uncritical media embrace (many members of the world&#039;s big media conglomerates are in CFR), and prime slots on Christian TV, and influence ... it often doesn&#039;t &quot;just happen.&quot; There are generally people behind them. It is interesting to note that none of these famous preachers are Reformed or fundamentalist, are they? Some of them might be POLITICALLY conservative, but their theology is generally something that gives the masses what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spark: &quot;From what I know, the CFR is a foreign policy think tank, and I wouldn&rsquo;t have an issue with there being a true believer on the Council interjecting Truth into the foreign policy conversation.&quot; I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist on IndependentConservative&#8217;s weblog because he really isn&#8217;t into that stuff, but having you believe that they are just a benign foreign policy think tank is precisely what they want you to believe. CFR is a very powerful organization whose goal is economic,&nbsp; political, social, cultural, etc. globalism. I could get into who started, who funds, and who is confederate with the CFR, but that is beyond the scope of this conversation, though I request of you to research the matter. </p>
<p>Instead, I wish to point out that religion is very much on the CFR agenda. It is probably an oversimplification to say that the CFR &quot;supports one world government&quot; (though there are certainly members of CFR that desire it), the CFR is against anything that hinders global unity. Nothing is a bigger barrier to unity than fundamentalist religions with exclusive claims. So CFR promotes religious figures that are either universalist or the next best thing (and actually better for some purposes) those with a watered &#8211; down homogenized message with a New Age component. </p>
<p>It is interesting to note that Oprah Winfrey, while &quot;technically&quot; not a religious leader the most effective proponent of New Age since Shirley MaClaine (sp), has CFR ties &#8230; her educational outreach programs for girls in Africa are through them. More to the point, the pastors that have CFR ties are generally the ones that go on Larry King and refuse to say that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. That includes none other than TD Jakes, who has CFR ties, who has famously refused at various times to commit to Jesus Christ being the only way. Incidentally, both Jakes and Warren have endorsed Christians practicing &quot;Yahweh yoga&quot;, contemplative prayer, meditation, etc. and other stuff from Hinduism and Buddhism.&nbsp; They are not the only ones. As a matter of fact, the pastors that are associated with CFR and their splinter groups (which is alleged to include the Center For National Policy, founded by Sun Myung Moon, the Moonies cult, but I cannot confirm it, but please know that even if it is not true being associated with Moon is bad enough) is basically a who&#8217;s who of the religious right and the people on TBN and similar. Billy Graham? Ties to CFR. You are aware that no one has done more for the cause of ecumenism (the acceptance of Roman Catholics by Protestants) than Billy Graham. Please recall that Graham recently endorsed universalism in that famous Newsweek article. Time Magazine: &quot;Graham is totally representative of American religious universalism.&quot; </p>
<p>You have to realize that these preachers that pop up out of nowhere with these huge churches, massive and generally uncritical media embrace (many members of the world&#8217;s big media conglomerates are in CFR), and prime slots on Christian TV, and influence &#8230; it often doesn&#8217;t &quot;just happen.&quot; There are generally people behind them. It is interesting to note that none of these famous preachers are Reformed or fundamentalist, are they? Some of them might be POLITICALLY conservative, but their theology is generally something that gives the masses what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: spark</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6737</link>
		<dc:creator>spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6737</guid>
		<description>IC,

You know,&#160; it is not in a girl&#039;s nature to confront.&#160; And, one of the reasons why male alarm-sounders don&#039;t expose female false teachers is that males, by and large, don&#039;t listen to/follow female preachers--check out a Joyce Meyer, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Beth Moore audiences on TV--at least 90% female.&#160;&#160;&#160; 

Another reason may be that it is typically not in a gentleman&#039;s nature to &quot;attack&quot; a female.&#160; I know exposing and warning is not attacking, but it may seem that way.&#160; So, unless and until a female who is familiar with false female ministries /teachers steps up, the preaching, error-spewing girls may be able to fly under the radar somewhat unchecked.&#160; 

My hope is that, until a sister steps-up, more women will began to read&#160; blogs like yours so their eyes will be opened and they will be able to discern error whether it&#039;s dressed in a skirt or trousers.&#160; Because, the reality is that the majority supporters of most churches/ministries are women.&#160; So, when the women finally wake up and start walking out of the mega domes of deception, the walls will really start tumbling down.&#160;&#160; 

Wow, that ALMOST inspires me to be the sister to start ringing the false-female-teacher alarm! Well, not really. But, I can find out where the next &quot;Woman thou art loosed&quot; conference is being held and go and&#160; distribute flyers shaped like a Christian Louboutin* shoe that say &quot;Step into the Truth-Check out independentconservative.com!&quot;

*for you men--designer footwear</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IC,</p>
<p>You know,&nbsp; it is not in a girl&#8217;s nature to confront.&nbsp; And, one of the reasons why male alarm-sounders don&#8217;t expose female false teachers is that males, by and large, don&#8217;t listen to/follow female preachers&#8211;check out a Joyce Meyer, Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Beth Moore audiences on TV&#8211;at least 90% female.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>
<p>Another reason may be that it is typically not in a gentleman&#8217;s nature to &quot;attack&quot; a female.&nbsp; I know exposing and warning is not attacking, but it may seem that way.&nbsp; So, unless and until a female who is familiar with false female ministries /teachers steps up, the preaching, error-spewing girls may be able to fly under the radar somewhat unchecked.&nbsp; </p>
<p>My hope is that, until a sister steps-up, more women will began to read&nbsp; blogs like yours so their eyes will be opened and they will be able to discern error whether it&#8217;s dressed in a skirt or trousers.&nbsp; Because, the reality is that the majority supporters of most churches/ministries are women.&nbsp; So, when the women finally wake up and start walking out of the mega domes of deception, the walls will really start tumbling down.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>
<p>Wow, that ALMOST inspires me to be the sister to start ringing the false-female-teacher alarm! Well, not really. But, I can find out where the next &quot;Woman thou art loosed&quot; conference is being held and go and&nbsp; distribute flyers shaped like a Christian Louboutin* shoe that say &quot;Step into the Truth-Check out independentconservative.com!&quot;</p>
<p>*for you men&#8211;designer footwear</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6736</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6736</guid>
		<description>Here is his site &lt;a href=&quot;http://healtheland.wordpress.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jesus Christology&lt;/a&gt; .&#160; Always available in the blogroll links ;) .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is his site <a href="http://healtheland.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Jesus Christology</a> .&nbsp; Always available in the blogroll links <img src='http://www.independentconservative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  .</p>
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		<title>By: spark</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6735</link>
		<dc:creator>spark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6735</guid>
		<description>healtheland,    

I tried to access the link in your comment several times to no avail.  I suppose you are referencing Rick&#039;s membership on the Council on Foreign Relations.  I&#039;ve seen articles about the CFR and the New World Order; but, I&#039;ve not delved into it.&#160;  From what I know, the CFR is a foreign policy think tank, and I wouldn&#039;t have an issue with there being a true believer on the Council interjecting Truth into the foreign policy conversation.&#160;&#160;  I look forward to visiting your site so that I can read more.&#160;&#160;  And, I am glad that you are ringing the alarm with respect to error, deception and false teaching within the religious right...IC, is correct, there is so much of it and one person can&#039;t expose it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>healtheland,    </p>
<p>I tried to access the link in your comment several times to no avail.  I suppose you are referencing Rick&#8217;s membership on the Council on Foreign Relations.  I&#8217;ve seen articles about the CFR and the New World Order; but, I&#8217;ve not delved into it.&nbsp;  From what I know, the CFR is a foreign policy think tank, and I wouldn&#8217;t have an issue with there being a true believer on the Council interjecting Truth into the foreign policy conversation.&nbsp;&nbsp;  I look forward to visiting your site so that I can read more.&nbsp;&nbsp;  And, I am glad that you are ringing the alarm with respect to error, deception and false teaching within the religious right&#8230;IC, is correct, there is so much of it and one person can&#8217;t expose it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Gxg--G2</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6730</link>
		<dc:creator>Gxg--G2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6730</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s encouraging to hear, Brah....

Personally, though, there are times when it feels as if one may be focusing on something that may be of no relevance. For example, on my blog, I was recently discussing the issue of evolution/ the lies behind it that are constantly propped up in our school systems......&amp; I decided to give out some useful information/rebuttals to the issue that could help people. 

Yet, with the MYRIAD od issues out there....ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH that seem to go unoticed, it&#039;s easy to feel as if you&#039;re not doing enough. But as you said, as long as you&#039;re focused on tackling something that needs to be corrected, I guess it&#039;s all good....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s encouraging to hear, Brah&#8230;.</p>
<p>Personally, though, there are times when it feels as if one may be focusing on something that may be of no relevance. For example, on my blog, I was recently discussing the issue of evolution/ the lies behind it that are constantly propped up in our school systems&#8230;&#8230;&amp; I decided to give out some useful information/rebuttals to the issue that could help people. </p>
<p>Yet, with the MYRIAD od issues out there&#8230;.ESPECIALLY IN THE CHURCH that seem to go unoticed, it&#8217;s easy to feel as if you&#8217;re not doing enough. But as you said, as long as you&#8217;re focused on tackling something that needs to be corrected, I guess it&#8217;s all good&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6723</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6723</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t feel any blogger should feel bad in any way if they sound the alarm and are only mentioning a certain group of false teachers.&#160; Each person has to address what they know and are familiar with.&#160; 

There are WAY MORE PIMPS than any single blogger would ever be able to note.

Every blogger knows their given audience and who &lt;em&gt;(in regards to pimps)&lt;/em&gt; they are familiar with to provide insight about.&#160; I mean so long as the blogger is not avoiding noting someone THEY KNOW is no good and neglecting to mention them for the sake of partiality.&#160; I have NEVER done a post about Joyce and while I knows she&#039;s false from the little I&#039;ve seen, I think others address her better than me because they are more familiar with her material in-depth.&#160; I know more of people like &lt;a href=&quot;../../../05/05/paula_white_greedy/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Paula White&lt;/a&gt;.&#160; Her mannerisms, cliches and just her overall game are something I&#039;m familiar with.&#160; So I can sound the alarm about Paula far better than devoting time to Joyce.&#160; Others have Joyce covered who can provide better in-depth analysis of her.&#160; Does not mean I never will, but of course my blog is a blended bag.&#160; I might call out a pimp one day and for the past 2 days I&#039;ve been noting people who speak the truth.&#160; And who knows if tomorrow&#039;s posts will even be about church matters.&#160; Who knows if there will even be a post tomorrow :lol: .&#160; Only God knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t feel any blogger should feel bad in any way if they sound the alarm and are only mentioning a certain group of false teachers.&nbsp; Each person has to address what they know and are familiar with.&nbsp; </p>
<p>There are WAY MORE PIMPS than any single blogger would ever be able to note.</p>
<p>Every blogger knows their given audience and who <em>(in regards to pimps)</em> they are familiar with to provide insight about.&nbsp; I mean so long as the blogger is not avoiding noting someone THEY KNOW is no good and neglecting to mention them for the sake of partiality.&nbsp; I have NEVER done a post about Joyce and while I knows she&#8217;s false from the little I&#8217;ve seen, I think others address her better than me because they are more familiar with her material in-depth.&nbsp; I know more of people like <a href="../../../05/05/paula_white_greedy/" rel="nofollow">Paula White</a>.&nbsp; Her mannerisms, cliches and just her overall game are something I&#8217;m familiar with.&nbsp; So I can sound the alarm about Paula far better than devoting time to Joyce.&nbsp; Others have Joyce covered who can provide better in-depth analysis of her.&nbsp; Does not mean I never will, but of course my blog is a blended bag.&nbsp; I might call out a pimp one day and for the past 2 days I&#8217;ve been noting people who speak the truth.&nbsp; And who knows if tomorrow&#8217;s posts will even be about church matters.&nbsp; Who knows if there will even be a post tomorrow <img src='http://www.independentconservative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' />  .&nbsp; Only God knows.</p>
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		<title>By: healtheland</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6722</link>
		<dc:creator>healtheland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6722</guid>
		<description>spark: 

I did not know about Lee Strobel&#039;s ties to the New World Order. But if you go to my weblog, http://healtheland.wordpress.com, you will see that I go after Rick Warren and the religious right vigorously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spark: </p>
<p>I did not know about Lee Strobel&#8217;s ties to the New World Order. But if you go to my weblog, <a href="http://healtheland.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://healtheland.wordpress.com</a>, you will see that I go after Rick Warren and the religious right vigorously.</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/comment-page-1/#comment-6704</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/30/schuller_waters_it_down_more/#comment-6704</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;spark&lt;/cite&gt; - I think you&#039;ve given folks lots to think about.

Regarding sites that call out pimps, I&#039;m sure you see &lt;span style=&quot;font-style: italic&quot;&gt;(like with this post even)&lt;/span&gt; various types are called out here for the good of all saints and glory to God.&#160; However, depending on someone&#039;s frame of reference who comes out of WoF heresy, that will probably be the area they speak about most.&#160; Really we need some female teachers to step up and handle people like Joyce and Beth, because many of us men were never even considering her stuff even when we were following WoF nuts.&#160; Not that I can say I won&#039;t ever have a post about someone like Joyce, but no blog can warn about them all.&#160; The idea is to get people into reading scripture for what&#039;s on the pages and reading more themselves.&#160; If they can get that, they&#039;ll be able to deal with whatever pimp comes there way.&#160; Because they will be following Christ.

And we really do need more people speaking up.&#160; Especially, &lt;span style=&quot;font-weight: bold&quot;&gt;we really do need more women to call out the female false teachers.&lt;/span&gt;  Of course men can and do call out female false teachers, but women false teachers bring an angle that I think women in the church could give special insight on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>spark</cite> &#8211; I think you&#8217;ve given folks lots to think about.</p>
<p>Regarding sites that call out pimps, I&#8217;m sure you see <span style="font-style: italic">(like with this post even)</span> various types are called out here for the good of all saints and glory to God.&nbsp; However, depending on someone&#8217;s frame of reference who comes out of WoF heresy, that will probably be the area they speak about most.&nbsp; Really we need some female teachers to step up and handle people like Joyce and Beth, because many of us men were never even considering her stuff even when we were following WoF nuts.&nbsp; Not that I can say I won&#8217;t ever have a post about someone like Joyce, but no blog can warn about them all.&nbsp; The idea is to get people into reading scripture for what&#8217;s on the pages and reading more themselves.&nbsp; If they can get that, they&#8217;ll be able to deal with whatever pimp comes there way.&nbsp; Because they will be following Christ.</p>
<p>And we really do need more people speaking up.&nbsp; Especially, <span style="font-weight: bold">we really do need more women to call out the female false teachers.</span>  Of course men can and do call out female false teachers, but women false teachers bring an angle that I think women in the church could give special insight on.</p>
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