Rekjalhew

October 23, 2007

How Fake Moves of the Holy Spirit Started in America

by @ 1:05 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade

Read the following 2 Wikipedia entries in full.

Please refrain from comments in this thread till you’ve read both in full.

Some feel I mention these things to cause division amongst saints. I mention them, because this is a problem of 2 Thessalonians 2 proportions, that has only grown with time. Much of the mess noted on this blog as false doctrine has DIRECT roots to what is noted above.



34 Responses to “How Fake Moves of the Holy Spirit Started in America”

  1. truthintheselastdays Says:

    How on earth is the Holy Ghost supposed to manifest Himself through the teachings of a man who was a British-Israelist, a homosexual of sorts and a Freemason?

    I’m 16 years old, and an ex-Pentecostal, so I speak from experience when I say that this movement is anti-Scriptural, and to tag this as a problem of 2 Thessalonians 2 proportions is right on the money.

    I’m so thankful that I got out of the Pentecostal Movement, and found me a small Reformed Baptist Church where Christ is sought, not dumb, foolish and somewhat demonic experiences.

    Hat-tip to you, IC!

  2. s-wizzle Says:

    Wow. I must admit that I’ve always just assumed that the Azusa St Revival was a good thing. I’ve heard so many christians talk about it in such a positive way. I wonder how many people have actually taken the time to study it’s origins. I know I never did.

    IC, I want to thank you for this site. I stumbled upon it after hearing about Juanita Bynum’s parking lot incident. I have read many of your posts and have been forced to rethink many things that I thought I knew about God, and His Word and His church.

    I have since started reading through the Bible for myself, with no study bible and no input from others. And I am starting to feel like my eyes are opening for the first time in regards to the “church” today.

    A month ago I would have been shocked and probably would have dismissed the Wikipedia info about Azusa and Parham. But not now.

    Honestly, I’ve never questioned “speaking in tongues” as this has always been done in church’s that I’ve attended as an adult. But now I will search the Scripture to see what God says about it.

  3. RE: Fake Moves of the Holy Spirit « Black, Reforming and Standing Firm Says:

    [...] the Black Reforming Kid again. Just finished reading the blog posted by Independent Conservative, down on his blog. As an ex-Pentecostal who did some research for last years Azusa Centennial, [...]

  4. IndependentConservative Says:

    My background is similar to both of yours truthintheselastdays and s-wizzle.

    I’m not saying something like tongues “can’t” happen, but what we have been sold is bogus.

    Give a 15 year old who becomes a Free Mason a mic and you never know what might happen next!

    So far it’s gotten us a woman who begs for $200,000 and a new baby from it called the prosperity doctrine, along with it’s Oneness strain, that is growing like wild fire.

    The whole “tongues for yourself” bit started as self empowerment and now we’ve got big time self-help books from people claiming to be saints. God had Paul establish that tongues was no longer a gift to use any old kind of way, but something used to communicate with non-believers in their own language. Honestly, those claiming the gift can’t do that and we see what happened when an Azusa missionary went to India short a translator :lol: :lol: :lol: .

    Yea I’ve had to learn a lot. Realize much of what I was told has no foundation. Ticked off some family, ticked off some friends. But God is not of confusion and Bokahohahahaha is not a language He put in anyone’s mouth.

    It’s especially interesting to me to see the whole slain in the spirit bit started there too.

  5. AndyB Says:

    As someone who’s only recently had his eyes opened to the foolishness and falseness of these practicing-the-presence “moves of God”, I’ve tried to find out more and more about things like Azusa and Brownsville that I took for granted for so long. I only wish I knew how to bring these kind of things to the attention of my wife, family, and church without being written-off as a hate-filled heathen who wants to just stir-up dissention and “quench the Spirit”.

    The Truth sets us free, but it’s not always a painless procedure.

  6. truthintheselastdays Says:

    AndyB,

    As far as Pentecostalism goes, Brownsville shows the depth of how low it can go. Particularly sad is one video I saw of a young girl haking violently while attempting to share her “testimony”. It was truly saddening…and again reminiscent of 2 Thessalonians 2.

  7. art123 Says:

    A pastor of a church I used to attend told me on a few occasions that the ‘Holy Ghost’ told him that I belong up north and my daughter belongs down south. I had wanted to make the move to be with my daughter for a long time, but I listened to the ‘Holy Ghost’. He once told the church that if you don’t listen to the Holy Ghost, there are dangerous consequences. Meanwhile, my daughter has become withdrawn and it was affecting my job performance. Also, stress had sent me in and out of hospitals and clinics. I remember my mother and uncle saying to me that I should do something or else I would lose her, but I didn’t tell them, except my brother-in-law, what the pastor said. Eventually, I lost my job and weighed the situation. I decided that my daughter needed me and moved in with my mother. It felt like a weight has lifted from my shoulders, and my daughter is doing much better compared to before. I haven’t been to the doctor since I’ve been here a year ago. I have let go fear and decided that I better inquire to the Lord for myself.

  8. s-wizzle Says:

    AndyB, I understand where you are coming from. I was surprised with the unhappiness that I was met with from some loved ones when I started asking sincere questions about the church.
    It saddens me because we are supposed to seek the truth, not vehemently oppose someone who questions religious practices just because that’s the “norm.”

  9. s-wizzle Says:

    I’m not familiar with Brownsville. Is it similar to the Azusa revival?

  10. truthintheselastdays Says:

    Hi s-wizzle,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsville_Revival should help you come up to grips with what happened at Brownsville.

  11. IndependentConservative Says:

    And the little question of such great significance is, why did William J. Seymour die with only 1 eye?

  12. alady1969 Says:

    I attended a Sabbath Holiness church were the members from adults to children foamed at the mouth.While in that, catching the Holy Spirit state. When I asked about it, I was told it was a form a purging. I was shocked. I had never witnessed anything like that before and was amazed that that’s what they believed in. That it was a requirment to allow the Holy Spirit to dwell in your body. To be gifted with speaking in tongues. That the Holy Spirit did not dwell within you unless you were indwelled with the gift of speaking in tongues. That you had to be purged. I was in awwww, just couldn’t believe what I was hearing or seeing.

  13. alady1969 Says:

    Check Juanita’s Azusa conference. WOW!

  14. truthintheselastdays Says:

    alady1969,

    That’s what I’ve come to see as the norm in Pentecostalism – men (and women) with their experiences supplanting the Saviour. It’s disgusting at best…and somewhat demonic at its worst.

    blackreformingkid.wordpress.com

  15. IndependentConservative Says:

    I don’t think it was “her” Azusa conference. You know they hold the silly thing every year? Carlton Pearson was running them for a while. That video is of a year she was one of the nuts running around with a mic in her hand.

    As far as HER conferences go, she’s currently peddling video from HER TRASHING Floor revival, featuring her and folks like Marvin THE Sapp.

    Notice how in the video she keeps pressing the big guy till he falls over…

  16. IndependentConservative Says:

    truthintheselastdays – click on the Dashboard drop down box on the upper left side of this page and select “your profile” and you can enter your blog URL into your profile, so it will appear with your posts as a hyper link on your account ID.

  17. healtheland Says:

    IndependentConservative: Do you think that all of the activity was false, including actual other languages being spoken and the faith – healings? Incidentally, this is off topic but notice that Donnie McClurkin has joined the Barack HUSSEIN Obama parade: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/23/obama-takes-heat-for-link-to-mcclurkin/

  18. AndyB Says:

    Back when I used to volunteer at our church’s bookstore last year, I read Charisma Magazine’s big write-up on the Azusa Centennial. It mentioned in passing stores claiming that folks heard their native languages spoken from people who had no knowledge of said language. I think the article was more of a “what if it happened in today’s media age” kind of thing though.

    I know from reading some of the investigative reporting of the Brownsville Revival that a lot of the reports of this kind of thing happening were more of a “friend of a friend of my 4th cousin” kind of thing with no solid names/dates ever produced or documented. I honestly wonder if Azusa was just more of the same.

    The very fact that people claim to be modern-day prophets yet no one in the congregations ever writes-down their prophecies speaks volumes for me =/ The last time a “Prophet” spoke at our church, I watched the service from home and made note of everything he foretold (vague as most of it was).. I know that nobody at the actual service took the time to do so. Just testing the spirits and all that…

  19. IndependentConservative Says:

    Healtheland – Every night on TV Benny Hinn makes claims similar to what is claimed to have occurred at Azusa. The bottom line is, once some Azusa missionaries got to India, they were shown NOT to have the gift of tongues.

    Also, we must keep in mind, that regardless of the signs and wonders that something that sits on false doctrine could be empowered by something other than God.

    AndyB, I think Azusa was very much more of the same bogus stories and anything that happened was the result of occult members who felt COMFORTABLE at Azusa.

    William J. Seymour died with just one eye and always was blind in the other. If the healings were real, certainly someone should have touched his eye.

  20. art123 Says:

    It looks like Seymour epitomized what Christ said in Luke 6:39.

  21. IndependentConservative Says:

    Well art123, you have a point.

  22. healtheland Says:

    IndependentConservative: I understand the evil of Parham. But what evil did Seymour commit? No personal, moral, ethical, or financial misdeeds regarding him are known. So are you saying that Seymour’s problem was doctrinal? If so, explain his error apart from being taught by the mason Parham of course? Now, of course, my intention is not to defend anyone that would sit and learn from a mason. I am just not convinced that a Christian should have intrinsically somehow known that the gift of tongues is no longer to be given in these times.

  23. IndependentConservative Says:

    But what evil did Seymour commit?

    Brother, he claimed you don’t have the Holy Spirit unless you’re babbling like a brook. Then proceeded to lead people to focus on the lesser gift of tongues. Created an environment where the message of the cross was superseded by the message of “thou must speaketh in tongues”. An environment where people engaging in sorcery felt comfortable. Do you not see that there is something WRONG with a church leader that keeps his head in a shoe box most of a church meeting?

    The guys who tossed Seymour out initially were right on point. They were the NARROW ROAD SAINTS, that saw junk and didn’t stand for it. My hat is off in respect of their stand and I hope they stayed that way.

    Yes, the issues were of a doctrinal nature.

    If so, explain his error apart from being taught by the mason Parham of course?

    Do we accept Mormon preachers because they just happened to follow the teachings of Free Mason Joseph Smith Junior?

    Parham started leading church meetings at age 15, Joseph Smith FALSELY claimed to see God at age 15. Just interesting…

    Regarding Seymour, he knew he didn’t have the gift and was admonished by being KICKED OUT of an assembly by elders who knew he was teaching bad doctrine. So he knew the deal and kept serving untruth. He was surrounded by masses who never claimed you have to speak in tongues, but instead Seymour went with the lie. And we see the bad fruit of it all. The mess given the title Azusa today is no different from what was going on under Seymour’s leadership. There’s only been a Oneness and Prosperity twist added by some, but it’s all from the same rotten core of bad doctrine.

    It bears false witness on the Holy Spirit.

    People drew to Seymour because he was tickling ears. He had people thinking he had found a “new thing” that nobody else was onto. Even after admonishment, Seymour continued.

  24. art123 Says:

    IC, I would like to say something about the ‘new thing’ that churches in this day of age claim to have found. If they have found it, then they would have to go past Rev 22:21 to do it. However, they have already violated Rev 22 to begin with verses 18-20 with that nonsense.

  25. healtheland Says:

    IndependentConservative: “Brother, he claimed you don’t have the Holy Spirit unless you’re babbling like a brook.” Well, that settles it right there then. I did not know that Seymour preached that. (I know, the Wikipedia thing said “Tongues as evidence of Spirit Baptism.” but I thought that it referred to … oh never mind). I thought that the “you must speak in tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit” developed later.

    “Parham started leading church meetings at age 15, Joseph Smith FALSELY claimed to see God at age 15. Just interesting…” That is more than “just interesting” … when you consider the witchcraft demons that are involved in masonry, it is not a coincidence at all.

    I do know that a lot of the pre – Azusa Street charismatics, Smith Wigglesworth and people like that, taught that the gifts of the Holy Spirit was an anointing or blessing that often (but not always) came at a later date from salvation. They further use Paul’s exhortion to “seek the best gifts” in I Corinthians 14:12 to assert that it means that often (but not always!) God will grant these gifts (again, not always tongues, prophecy, or healings, but gifts!) to people that desire them for a legitimate purpose and request them of Him. I was under the impression that the movement towards “everyone needs or should have or should request THESE SPECIFIC GIFTS” and then the “unless you have THESE SPECIFIC GIFTS you aren’t saved” came out of Azusa Street.

  26. art123 Says:

    To IC and Healtheland,
    I once asked the pastor of my old church does it mean I’m not saved if I don’t speak in tongues. He told me no. Now, I see why when folks in the congregation start ‘speaking in tongues’ or cut a rug, passing out, I notice the pastor and the deacons snickering at them. It’s true.

  27. IndependentConservative Says:

    Healtheland said:

    Well, that settles it right there then. I did not know that Seymour preached that.

    I get the feeling that you’re making excuses for this man in part because of the racial oppression he faced.

    Let’s make no mistake, his doctrine was as false as that of his teacher.

    They made it clear that they felt you don’t have the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues. They did not say it was required for salvation, but for someone to add that makes twisted sense considering scripture such as Ephesians 1:13-14. I’ve seen pimps like Paul Morton claim that once saved you are “sealed” but need to speak in tongues as the sign that you are “filled”. Which is absolute garbage. Morton said that at Club New Birth some years back, before Morton moved his own club to Atlanta.

    Parham clearly taught that you needed to speak in tongues to have the Holy Spirit and so did his student Seymour. They also felt you lacked faith if you were not healed of sickness. These are basic tenants of the charismatic movement, a movement you know I grew up in and I know you grew up in. Let’s not sugar coat it. Just because we grew up in it does not make any part of it right. It falls short of scripture.

  28. IndependentConservative Says:

    art123 – If speaking in tongues was required to have the Holy Spirit, it would mean that you are not saved unless you spoke in tongues. (Even those claiming they have the gift of tongues are faking it even if they don’t admit it to themselves, they can’t minister to ANY unbeliever of another language. They’d pee their pants if you put a foreign speaking Jew in front of them and put them to the test.) It would make the apostolics 100% correct, but they are wrong, because they fail to see that all who are saved are baptized in the Holy Spirit at the point of conversion and it does not require any expression of tongues. The best example being when the Holy Spirit feel on Christ, it fell like a dove and He did not speak in tongues. Not that He was some “new convert” but He did not speak in tongues when the Holy Spirit fell on him, to show he was the Messiah. In Acts 2 it was like fire and they spoke in tongues. In Acts Acts 8 the apostles laid hands and the Holy Spirit came and there is no mention of tongues. Still we know they were baptized in the fire of the Holy Spirit. Why the delay? Because the apostles needed to see that the Samaritans would receive it. Remember, the Samaritans were not formerly held in high regard at all. Christ told the 12 not to minister to them in Matthew 10:5. But they needed to go to the Samaritans in Acts 8 and see that even the Samaritans were part of the salvation plan.

    And is it written:
    Acts 11:15 (New American Standard Bible)

    15 “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

    Peter shows in this statement that the Holy Spirit can come as it desires, but it came for the Gentiles the first time as it did for the Jews. Why? This was a sign to Peter, who was a Jew himself who accepted Christ. That the Gentiles were worthy of the same as himself, that salvation has no partiality in Christ. In some cases there were tongues, in others no tongues, but in every case of tongues in scripture, there was a Jew present.

  29. healtheland Says:

    IndependentConservative: Not making excuses for Seymour. Again, my aim is to work through my personal doctrine and theology, not defend someone who sat around and allowed a mason to tell him that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved when I Corinthians explicitly says otherwise. That was why I shifted to Smith Wigglesworth and the pre – Azusa charismatics, which if I am correct also includes Andrew Lobias Murray. Yeah, this “if you do not get healed it is because you lack faith”, I still shudder when I remember how I was so lost not so long ago that I actually sat around and listened to Ken Hagin’s prideful sermon on how he verbally and spiritually abused a brave sister in Christ that was in a wheelchair and was at a Christian conference promoting her book on how legitimate faith could help you face any trials that was based on her own experience. Hagin actually took pride in the fact that he told that woman that she didn’t have true faith, because if she did she would get up and walk out of that wheelchair, and reduced the woman to tears. I actually tried to order one of Hagin’s books over the Internet after hearing that sermon, but the transaction kept failing! Ah well.

  30. KyleAndrews Says:

    Healtheland,

    You will know them by their fruits.

    The COGIC Church and the Assemblies of God were created from the Azusa Street Revival.

    Kyle

  31. art123 Says:

    If you listen to Bynum, she babbles a lot.

  32. art123 Says:

    art123 Says:
    November 2nd, 2007 at 3:54 pm IC,
    I have just found this website a couple of days ago about the Azuza street revival movement and that this form of Pentacostal is revolved around the occult. The website is http://www.seekgod.ca/quakers.htm

  33. seekingdaily Says:

    I just happened across this website and I must say there is an incredible amount of info here…I was curious about Paula White because the new praise and worship leader at a church I just left is from her church. He likes to sing in tongues and he recently lifted the Pastors arms and told the congregation to praise him(the Pastor) I am seeing many similarities emerge with the church as with all the BIG name preachers out there. Matter of Fact the Pastor was recently on TBN with Steve Hill.  I feel like I am narrowly escaping a cult.

  34. IndependentConservative Says:

    Hi seekingdaily – Use the search box on the upper left of the page and you’ll find plenty.  Anytime there’s a guy telling you to praise ANY MAN it’s a cult.

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