I want to point out that Steve/Stephen Burgor is a name that can be seen here on the DWO club web site. See the listing for “Crystal Burgor”. A lady named “Crystal Burgor” who is on the DWO club “executive team” is married to a man named Stephen.

Stephen, you and your wife go have a read of 1 Timothy 6, tell Ben to stop his lies and FLEE from that mess you’re in.

Stephen Burgor, I’ve dumped your first attempt at commenting, because you included two lengthy comments you said you posted other places, while you did not name those places. If you’re going to post here something you’ve been debating with others elsewhere, I want to know exactly where. I want to see it there with what others said, to see if they tried to help you find sound doctrine, because you’re way off.

I confess Jesus as my Lord, Savior and ONLY means anyone has to the Father and only hope for eternal life. But I suspect the Jesus you claim is a false big money Jesus, rather than the true Jesus who is not at all having us seek any of this world’s riches.

I want to see how much others tried to help you, because if you’ve rejected others, I’m not going to waste time with you.

Go read 1 Timothy 6 in full, Lord willing the Holy Spirit will allow you to see the truth in it. If you want old covenant riches you should live by the old covenant Law and you’ll be condemned by it. I have the Grace of a New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) and it’s not one that features promises of big money in this life.

You can attempt another comment, but if you’re going to include stuff from elsewhere, I want you to include links to those places. Depending on what you might have already rejected in the way of sound doctrine, I might not spend another moment with you here. So post the links.

Most people COMPLAINING about tithing and giving are those who are stingy, and always find themselves in lack.

I’ve got no problem with “tithing”. It was real. I’ve got a problem with contrived systems of collections that are fake and used to fleece the sheep. Like you, I once didn’t read my Bible well and spoke just like you do now, in ignorance. Then I learned better praise God. How about you tell us the name of the apostle who told the church to pay 10% of money wages from labor? How about you tell us the case where Jesus accepted a tithe? Tell us which apostle took tithes? You’re engaged in a man contrived system of collections, that was given the title “tithe”, to keep you deceived. It’s not a tithe at all and you’re not pleasing God in legalistic efforts, to bind yourself to law that Christ went on a cross to spare you from the curse of. So I’m not cursed, I know Jesus.

Galatians 3:10-14 (New American Standard Bible)

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”

11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”–

14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

But since you like that thing called “tithing” that is not, how about you list for us the exemptions from scripture? Here’s a hint, the people you claim are in lack should receive a tithe, not be paying one if we are to uphold tithing. If I lack, I’m exempt according to the law. If you’re paying down debt, you’re not in increase, you’re in lack and denying it in words. While making that monthly payment because you know the truth of your debt.

Again, I’m not under the law, so I don’t seek to uphold a tithe to you.

Tithing is not a commandment, but a principal of giving that can be followed.

Than why would anyone have “lack” when not doing it by what you’ve said? You’re contradicting yourself, given that garbage pimps have fed to you. That vomit you need the Holy Spirit to cleanse you of. Hey, as I said, I once had that vomit too. But there is hope if you really desire the truth.

Hang out at InYourBible.com for a while and learn about what’s in that book you’ve been using as a neat prop for too long.

(talebearing, gossip, sowing discord among the brethren, false witness, hating your brother, and being devoid of the love of God and the fruit of the Spirit). Prov 26:20-22;

If you read your Bible more you’d realize it’s the man you defend who does those things. I don’t hate anyone. I desire you come to know the truth. Perhaps God will grant repentance and allow Ben to know the truth one day too.

…he points his finger…he sows discord. Further in the text, vv16-19, lists seven things abominable in the site of God (you should know them, because your are guilty of six)…

Now look who’s pointing the finger.

have lack of work performed in the Kingdom, or lack of purpose.

There’s performance and then there is “performance” for the sake of SWINDLING. I covet no man’s treasure. Your “lack of purpose” garbage sounds like the Charles Finney mess, that I’m sure you get regular doses of. It’s always mixed in that vomit. Remember, I know all the games you’re being played on because I’ve been part of it once too. Try clicking some of the links to helpful information that I offer to you.

yet you commend, applaud, and advocate the efforts of the media in destroying God’s people.

You commend, applaud and advocate the efforts of a man who destroys himself and you along with him. Having been warned about him, you have no more excuse.

You cry that the actions of these Pastors bring reproach on the body of Christ, and that something should be done about it (by any means necessary).

I don’t quote dead Muslims who burn in hell (El-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz aka Malcom X), I quote scripture.
Ephesians 5:11 (New American Standard Bible)

11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

Your most interesting statement.

There is only one accuser of the brethren, and that is our adversary, the devil.

Now you’ve explained why you are here accusing me. You defend the evil and accuse those who expose it!

Who’s the real sucker?

The one who puts up with bad doctrine.

Satan has recruited you, and you’re to blinded by your own lust for prattle to even see it. Maybe YOU should get a better handle on the scriptures (as it pertains to the words and character that defile you). You can sure QUOTE the Word; but, only when it makes you feel comfortable believing someone else is a lot worse off than you.

You defend who you think is an angle of light, but is not, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. I don’t want your 10%, I’d rather you help your family and those in need with it.

You hear gossip and are quick to tell it to another…THE JUICIER THE BETTER! RIGHT?

I’m here to help the sheep and you said I quote scriptures, I don’t do this for the sake of gossip.

You have decided against speaking on the house of the pimp, because now you’re spending a number of words to speak against me. Remember who you said is the accuser of saints.

Does tearing others down through gossip feed your pride, and make your belly satisfied?

Seeing someone continue in delusion makes me sorry for you. The Lord will deliver you if you read and study your Bible more. There is hope for you, but not infinite time for you to find it.

Matthew 7:13-14 (New American Standard Bible)

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The broad road and seeking earthly riches is what will take many to destruction. Just like Christ said in the parable of the sower, that folks like you and John Hagee continually trip on. You’ve got to get off that road. Ask God for wisdom and He will give it to you.

That’s the same kind of stinking, detestable pride Jesus spoke about regarding the self-righteous Pharisees.

Read Matthew 23 and think about Ben and your claims about 10% or going into lack.

You will only produce fruit in a thornbush.

You really need to learn that parable correctly, because you just don’t know what you are saying.

you’d better make sure your fire extinguisher is ready

I’ve got the Lord in Spirit and in truth. But I can’t force truth on you.

The Bible also says that, “we are not to speak evil of a brother” (James 4:11)

The Bible says boot the swindlers and workers of covetousness who claim the Lord’s name, 1 Corinthians 5.

What men do and how the Lord will deal with them is way out of your jurisdiction.

1 Corinthians 5, if the Lord wills you will read and if the Lord wills the Holy Spirit will help you understand your view of it is totally wrong.

If you are the Lord’s one day you’ll come to know the truth, as He helped me (and others you see making comments here) see when I(we) was where you are spiritually right now. I walked in that deluded vomit and nobody could tell me different till the Lord willed I come to the truth.

Love is what causes on brother to warn the sheep, 1 Thessalonians 5:14.

1Cor. 13:4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love one another
John 13:34 “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. ”

John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. ”

John 15:17 “I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.”

Rom. 12:10 “Love one another with mutual affection; outdo one another in showing honor.”

Rom. 13:8 “Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.”

1Ths. 4:9 “Now concerning love of the brothers and sisters, you do not need to have anyone write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another; ”

1Pet. 1:22 “Now that you have purified your souls by your obedience to the truth so that you have genuine mutual love, love one another deeply from the heart. ”

1John 3:11 “For this is the message you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”

1John 3:14 “We know that we have passed from death to life because we love one another. Whoever does not love abides in death. ”

1John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.”

1John 4:7 “Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. ”

1John 4:11 “Beloved, since God loved us so much, we also ought to love one another. ”

1John 4:12 “No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.”

2John 5 “But now, dear lady, I ask you, not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but one we have had from the beginning, let us love one another.”

1John 4:20 Those who say, “I love God,” and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.

Most of the “so-called” truths you have gotten regarding this issue is from broadcast news, or other less credible
sources.

The news report only affirms what I’ve learned from former members of DWO. If you feel they are not reliable, you are no better.

Don’t go thinking you’re the only one involved with DWO that reads and comments here.

Regarding the doctrine of that bogus mess like throwing money on a fake “altar” my source is the most reliable of all, The Word of God and what DWO has you doing tossing money at a stoop is BOGUS.

Didn’t Ben Gibert recently hold executive positions at Ford, GM & DCX, and earned an annual salary of 850k/yr + 250K annual bonus?

That’s not what paid for the house and you know it. Of if you don’t know it, I can tell you, it didn’t and does not make the payments, the church funds keep that house for him. Which is why it’s owned by the church. Those people (you included it seems) tossing money at a stoop own that house, but have the pimps living in it. Jesus never said to put a pimp in a mansion.

It seems to me that he was living a relatively “prosperous life” before he was led to a pastoral position;(which, after doing research, can’t be said of any of the other televangelists mentioned on this blog).

Then Ben should have stayed working at Ford, if it was about living in earthly wealth for him.

Now he’s a man twisting scripture, to play godliness as a means for earthly gain. He probably didn’t have a house this big when making $850K/year. Does 1 Timothy 6 mean anything to you? Do you not understand using godliness for gain in material wealth is expressly warned against?

You speak of less reliable sources, I find your knowledge of the situation to be less than some others from what you’re saying so far. You’re handle on scripture certainly is less than some teenagers I know.

How can you say, with all truth, that none of the tithes/offering are allocated towards helping members of the church, or the less fortunate?

A very small portion of that fake system of collections called “tithes” goes to help the poor and again I’ll tell you that witnesses with more knowledge of this than yourself have established the fact.

You’re wallowing in so much bad doctrine you can’t even tell the truth from twists of scripture.

Detroit is suffering, not because of one Pastor whom you assume is not doing anything to help change the plight of the city, but because of poor “City Management” and lack of State and Federal Funding.

When Jerusalem suffered a famine, to help the saints there, did the apostles make pleas to government? Did they bark to Caesar? NO! They went to the SAINTS and raised collections, to help fellow saints in need. You speak of running to government, while defending a pimp in a mansion.

You’re so far from the truth.

…so why would anyone expect to see Rome rebuilt, with only one man to do it? The shame in this whole situation is not the purchase of a piece of property, yet all of the mudslinging, false accusations, character defamation, and discord.

Rome? Now you’re really showing you need to stop typing and go read your Bible. The shame of this whole situation, is that a pimp has taken you into bad doctrine and you’re here defending it. If I am all the things you say, I stand with 2 Peter 2 and call your pimp a dog sucking his own vomit, that he dispenses to you, which you attempt to regurgitate on me. I used to eat that filth, thank the Lord He showed me it’s nothing but filthy vomit. I pray He helps you see it for what it really is.

If there was cause to indict him, then so be it, but nothing said is based on fact…just second-hand, heard-it-through-the-grapevine gossip.

Nobody said what Ben does is a crime under man’s laws, that would be for government to decide. This is about SCRIPTURE. This is about DOCTRINE. This is about GOD’S LAW NOT MAN’S. Again, I have been informed about this from people who know the truth, not gossip. DWO tossed a reporter out and you stand here defending their concealing instead of being open and having the reporter stay to answer all his questions.

When the home was purchased by the church, all of the furniture and amenities in the house were left to them by the previous owner; so the “wine tasting” room you speak of was already there (seller’s concession is a common issue with preowned property).

Now you admit it was not Ben’s former high salary that paid for the house, but you tossed that out earlier, to try and remove scrutiny from him. While you know he probably lives larger than ever before, off what he’s getting from YOU. While you make excuses for not giving more of that money directly to the poor now. Given the church owns the house, what does a church need with a “wine tasting room”. Who cares what was left, now the church owns a “wine tasting room”, for what? Does Ben go there to test what he’ll serve for communion?

I’m not sure why there’s such a big to-do about brick and mortar. It’s just a house. And please, get over all the rhetoric about “buildings being used as altars”. There are a plethora of instances in the Bible where men blessed certain places and used them as altars of worship and consecration unto the Lord. Jesus taught in “temples” and so did the apostles. We all know, technically, they are just brick and mortar, but what isn’t or hasn’t been. Every altar, temple, or sanctuary of worship is just that. It’s a simple matter of symbolism. It’s just like arguing the fact that when we partake of the Lord’s supper, it’s “not really” his body…so why do we refer to it as such? Again, it is SYMBOLIC of the body and blood.

What you don’t understand is that the old temple concept is no more and the building is NOT a symbol, we are the temple. With communion, that is an ordinance given from Christ, not to deem buildings temples and stoops altars. Please show IN SCRIPTURE where the apostles deemed a stoop an altar or a building owned by Gentile converts was termed “temple”? The brink and mortar temple is no more, destroyed.

If those commenting on this site want to “know” the truth about this issue, which is completely blown out of proportion, (with distorted data)…you should do it in a respectable manner, and prove all things with truth and honesty. Do like the disgruntled ex-member suggests, and ask them to see detailed financial statements. Ask their side of the story, so that you can be held blameless in the sight of God. If they are less than honest, then the Lord will judge them and deal with them accordingly.

The reporter already tried asking, was very respectful and was shown the door. We don’t need to see any more. If Ben wants to be open, he can put it all online with an easy upload of the files. Given what has already happened, nobody needs to trouble him or his staff again, we see he’s fake. It was Ben’s people who were ungodly in tossing the reporter out like that. Ben, if he were honestly a man working in Christ, he would have admonished his attorney, did a full interview with the reporter and turned over all records immediately. It seems we can only see Ben driving away when he’s not pimping you for your cash and having you treat a stoop like the Holy Spirit rest on it .

God WILL judge him and if he does not repent his judgement will feature a lake of fire and him being tossed into it.