Rekjalhew

October 22, 2007

Detroit World Outreach. Ben and Charisse Gibert Pimp and the People LOVE IT!

by @ 2:17 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade

This is a PRIME example of how false doctrine leads masses into total foolishness. And I have no problem saying I once was a fool too, but thank God through His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit I figured it out and now speak against it for the benefit of others who are still falling for it. A reader of this blog named Jimi, informed me of the video below. They tell me they used to attend this club of swindling and covetousness, but wised up and left. Praise God! Check out the video below and then I’ll say more.

Detroit World Outreach
Pimping the flock and the flock is too weak in scripture to recognize it.

This church assembly club is in Detroit Michigan, USA. A place riddled with crime, bad government and opportunities for employment are more scarce than some other big cities. So there certainly are people in need. In particular, there are people who claim the Lord’s name who have needs there, which should be the highest priority of a church assembly’s financial work. First to those who are in the church and have need, then to others outside the church via outreach ministry.

While some claim otherwise and mishandle scripture to do it, the apostles of the Lord Jesus DID NOT preach a message of prosperity doctrine and they were SURROUNDED by poor saints. They preached contentment. HOWEVER, they devoted money donated to the needs of the poor.

Galatians 2:10 (New American Standard Bible)

10 They only asked us to remember the poor–the very thing I also was eager to do.

When money was collected, it was primarily to meet the needs of poor saints.

1 Corinthians 16:1-4 (New American Standard Bible)

1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also.

2 On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

3 When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem;

4 and if it is fitting for me to go also, they will go with me.

Notice, the money was collected for saints. There was famine and persecution in Jerusalem. While Detroit World Outreach raises money that goes to keeping a big building, to COLLECT MORE MONEY and their passas living large. You think much goes to help poor saints in Detroit? How can it, when Ben Gibert has proclaimed prosperity for himself?


Fake altars

The people are putting money on a platform for the pimps, that is called an “altar”. The “altar” was part of the old covenant temple and something that was constructed for animal sacrifices, Genesis 8:20, Exodus 27. This is not something that is found in new covenant scripture as a construct to be built by saints in a physical sense. We know through Christ that the old altar made of earthly materials is no more. We offer sacrifices of PRAISE from our HEARTS, DOING GOOD WORKS and SHARING.

Hebrews 13:8-16 (New American Standard Bible)

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat.

11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp.

12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

13 So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach.

14 For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

15 Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.

16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

So after Christ, no more building altars of earthly materials. Offer sacrifices of PRAISE from your HEART, DO GOOD WORKS and SHARE with those who have NEED. Your bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 6:19. The apostles never built altars and never told anyone to construct any. In short, what is termed an altar today is a FARCE, because bad doctrine has led people to treat a building like a “temple”, John 2:18-22. The apostles figured it out! They made sure it was DOCUMENTED FOR US IN SCRIPTURE and because WE DON’T READ IT ENOUGH, we fall for bad teaching and treat a step in a building like an “altar”.

Some pimps claim they are having people put money at their feet, like was done with the apostles in Acts 4. That money the apostles collected WENT TO HELP THE POOR, NOT THEMSELVES. And these pimps are not the apostles. The method for collections by the church was established in 1 Corinthians 16:1-4. Today’s church leaders while leaders are not the apostles and so nobody needs to lay a dime at their “feet”, that has misled people to worship men. But we see a misguided flock putting money at what they THINK is an “altar” and before the feet of people who fleece them.

Oh yea, and that whole concept of “altar call”. Bad doctrine folks. People can accept Christ in their heart without going through the embarrassing process of walking up front while everyone is there, at a moment the individual is spiritually vulnerable and seeking the elders for prayer does not need to be a thing done as a show before everyone, James 5:14-16. (New converts make their conversion known via public baptism.) But we’re talking about pimps, not righteous elders who do good. Pimps play on showmanship, fear and twisting of doctrine, to make you think you’re in some old covenant temple system. I have respect for good elders, as scripture notes, Hebrews 13:17-19 and 1 Timothy 5:17-18, but these pimps never should be in their post in the first place. Given they never come close to the 1 Timothy 3 standard for church leadership. Covetous swindlers who claim the Lord’s name are to be excommunicated – 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 and their terrible doctrine is that of false teachers, 2 Peter 2. Which makes them handmaidens for evil rather than good, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. There is a difference between an elder and a false teacher. They are not to be treated the same!


The big mouthed lawyer and taxes

The “church lawyer” says:

Tiger Woods can make $100 Million and it’s not news worthy.

Tiger Woods EARNED his money from his work and did not use false doctrine to have people tossing it at his feet. Tiger Woods is not claiming the Lord’s name while diverting funds donated by saints for the work of God’s house for himself, instead of giving more to the poor. These pimps at Detroit World Outreach are the height of ARROGANCE. They feel they DESERVE to live WAY MORE THAN DOUBLE the life of those giving them money. They have gone beyond having themselves set for a comfortable life, to the point of making heathens envious of their material possessions instead of desiring eternal life in Christ Jesus.

$40K in taxes will be dodged because the home is owned by the “church”. Folks, guess who God TOLD TO PAY THEIR TAXES?

Romans 13:6-8 (New American Standard Bible)

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.

7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

In America the Religious Industry makes sure church groups don’t have to pay taxes, but their reasoning has NO SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION. I don’t care if it’s American tradition and been the law. The church endorsed a law that has no foundation in the duties of the saints. Sure there was a desire to avoid government intruding on church affairs, but these “churches” usually register with government anyway. If they can submit to government in registering their existence, they can pay taxes. In fact, to avoid government intrusion, church groups should pay taxes with no special rate cuts, to ensure no preferential treatment. Just wait, as hate crimes efforts from the political Left increase, I agree with DL Foster of Gay Christian Movement Watch, the tax exemption will be used like a vice around the neck of the church! See: New Jersey Revokes Tax Exemption of Church Owned Property to Promote the Homosexual Agenda.

The church lawyer also says to reporter:

You’re carnal, you don’t understand.

Those are the words of a debased mind defending a farce. The reporter ask lawyer to help him understand. The response:

Take the camera, leave.

Let’s see how the apostles treated outside scrutiny.

2 Corinthians 8:18-22 (New American Standard Bible)

18 We have sent along with him the brother whose fame in the things of the gospel has spread through all the churches;

19 and not only this, but he has also been appointed by the churches to travel with us in this gracious work, which is being administered by us for the glory of the Lord Himself, and to show our readiness,

20 taking precaution so that no one will discredit us in our administration of this generous gift;

21 for we have regard for what is honorable, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

22 We have sent with them our brother, whom we have often tested and found diligent in many things, but now even more diligent because of his great confidence in you.

Notice verses 20 and 21, God through Christ, by way of the Holy Spirit, has the apostle Paul note that they wish to not allow ANYONE to discredit their work. And they were raising money to give to poor saints, not buy a big mansion. This is why the apostles could be open to scrutiny, but Detroit World Outreach sent an investigative reporter away.


The results

A good example of the results of bad doctrine are in the poll the news station performed:

Is it ok for a church to purchase a $3.6 million mansion for its pastor?
Yes 75%
No 25%

Is it OK to allow yourself to be fleeced? It is a free country. So in a sense one could say that what Detroit World Outreach is doing meets the standard of men, however when measured against scripture, we see it falls very short. That is why when people like me and Jimi read our Bibles, we learned better and avoid places like Detroit World Outreach and shun people like Ben and Charisse Gibert, Ephesians 5:11.


Related post:
Creflo Says, He Don?t Need No Stinkin? Outside Christian Oversight!



19 Responses to “Detroit World Outreach. Ben and Charisse Gibert Pimp and the People LOVE IT!”

  1. stacey Says:

    WOW! This is a mess! What in the world does a pastor need with a wine tasting room and a jacuzzi…and a house that big? When I was in graduate school the pastor of the church I went to lived in this small house provided by the church with his wife and 7 children and used an old van. He was serious about Jesus Christ. These pastors and all pastors need to be held accountable. This is sickening! These pastors are walking around, no excuse me, jetting around like rockstars and the church members are sitting around enjoying the show waiting for thier piece of the pie, instead of making sure they and that pastor fall in line with Gods word. Very sad.

  2. stacey Says:

    Also, if they are doing the right thing, then why hide? Let the cameras in, answer the tough questions. These people are a trip!

  3. IndependentConservative Says:

    Now stacey, without a wine room, how else would Ben Gibert try doing the John 2:9 miracle himself :lol: ?

    How comes these pimps never tell the people they’ve got enough? How come they never say:
    2 Corinthians 12:14 (New American Standard Bible)

    14 Here for this third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden to you; for I do not seek what is yours, but you; for children are not responsible to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

    and just stop putting bucks into their own pockets? No matter what, they’ve always got a hustle. If they go off salary, they guilt people for money with love offerings or they peddle their books, tapes, CDs and DVDs and call that a “business”. They never honestly say ENOUGH for their pockets, to stop hording in more cash! Ask too many questions, they show you the door.

  4. art123 Says:

    IC,
    There was a discussion at pulpit pimps site on whether or not the government should have a say and control over the Religious Industry and that the government is an unruly evil and stupid. You’ve mentioned Romans 13:6-8 but yet the govenment here has already established a non-profit, tax exempt status for the church. They abuse their first amendment rights and tax exempt status by fleecing the flock. It goes to show that the reason that America and the rest of the world is a mess because they are not following the guidelines of the bible.

  5. Truth123 Says:

    It is a shame that this video still lives on the internet. It is quite orchestrated and sensationalized. It does not present the truth of the Detroit World Outreach situation.
    The church purchased the home in order to protect their senior pastor from threats and give his family the privacy that they lost when they were urgently pressed into taking over the ministry (including a tv show)  due the untimely death of the previous pastor.  Due to a weak real estate market and good credit the home was purchased with little or no initial outlay from the church. The church actually made a sizeable gain in equity from the purchase- and they are leveraging this into home buying programs for the poor. The home was removed from the tax rolls because it is a parsonage owned by the church. All church owned properties are tax exempt.  If pastor Ben wants to keep the home after his tenure as pastor – he will have to buy it from the church.  Detroit World outreach does aid its members in times of need and feeds many in the community.  There have been a lot of misquotes and misrepresentations in this case. I think the best thing –is for people to visit DWO and see for themselves.  It is a loving, vibrant church that is dedicated to the care and development of its members and impacting the community for Christ.

  6. IndependentConservative Says:

    Dear non-truth123, covering for the scam known as DWO.

    Why is DWO preaching a LIE that saints are supposed to have earthly prosperity?  When Christ and the apostles never promised such to the poor.

    Why is DWO treating a building like a "temple" and claiming they should place money on an "altar"?

    Why did DWO run from outside scrutiny?  Your assembly has not shown to be honorable.  And given the abuse of scripture, that is no surprise.

    Does DWO tell people to pay 10% or that they are robbing God and will be cursed?

    You sound just like a person who was making comments on YouTube about this and trying to cover for DWO, so I’ll respond to your comment with comments me and someone else already made there:

    By gimmeyomoneysucka:

    If the home is an investment, as has been claimed the knowledge i have proves its a bad one:

    From 2000-2005 homes in Detroit metro appreciated only 3.92% TOTAL (Kiplingers). Even at 5%/yr, factor the loan cost. At 6.25% for 30 yrs, 5M interest will be paid + equity loan costs. IF he does rent it would take tens of thousands/mo. just to cover the mortgage. Why wouldn’t Ben just buy his own home.

    By gimmeyomoneysucka:

    + The cost of maintenance, repairs, lawncare, etc. the church must pay.

    + luxury homes have depreciated, are harder to finance, and its a buyers market ESP in Detroit Metro. Short term it can’t make a profit.

    + The S&P earned an average of 10%/year since ’80. Plus interest compounds. 3.6 M @ 10% would earn 48 M in the same time frame as the mortgage!

    If it was about a good return on investment, DWO would have cast the money among the money changers, investment brokers with funds that mimic S&P performance.

    Claiming it’s for "safety" is a very lame excuse.  Sorry, a multimillion dollar place is not going to fly as a necessity for "safety".  Did DWO buy the house so he could seek shelter in the wine tasting room when in danger :lol: ?

    By gimmeyomoneysucka:

    If the home is being used as an investment in PEOPLE; as a shelter, drug rehab, AIDS treatment center, etc. it’s a great INVESTMENT. Let the pastor live there tax free at the same time.

    By gimmeyomoneysucka:

    Historically the tax exemption was meant to help pastors on meager incomes who presumably were doing a service to the community they served in. It was not intended to subsidize a pastor’s extravagant lifestyle through taxpayer’s money.

    These tax exemptions are going to disappear because of this abuse. I will be the first to vote for the change!

    As I might have told you or someone who just happened to say what you have on YouTube regarding the tax exemption:
    By IndependentConserv (me):

    The point is that Jesus never told a church assembly to apply for tax exempt status in the first place. What they read to you from Romans 13:6-8 applies to you as a group as well as an individual. (And they read it to you because the government makes them do it to maintain 501c-3 status as a religious group.)

    If Jesus is the head of your church and he paid taxes, your church should have no problem paying them either.

    By IndependentConserv (me):

    And how many club memberships (country club, dining club, etc.) are paid for on behalf of those pimps? How much did they milk in expenses last year for trips that were probably more like vacations but they called it "ministry"?

    How much dollars and percentage wise of the overall budget went to the poor?

    Exactly how much were the pimps given In salary AND love offerings?

    How much more could be for the poor if so much was not spent on junk?

    All the claims of doing this to help the poor are a lame excuse for hording money.  Are you saying the apostles of the Lord Jesus were fools for giving the money to aid those in need right away, instead of trying to wait years on returns from supposed investments?  The church is to meet needs NOW with what is available NOW and help in the future with money from future donations to the church by saints who can give.

    Once Ben ever leaves this home, he’ll be placed in yet another expensive home (it’s a joke how you attempt to call it a "parsonage") for the overall DWO take, little is going to the poor saints.  You’re using money to put your SUNDAY SHOWS in a nice building and your passa in a nice house.  It’s really all about you and the passa meeting the desires of your FLESH.

    (YouTuber "gimmeyomoneysucka" is a former member of DWO with inside knowledge of this scam.  I’ve invited them to join this discussion.)

  7. rehabbedchurchgoer Says:

    I would like to add the fact that in Detroit 75% of kids drop out of high school.  Where is the "prosperity"?  With a church with an Escalade or Mercedes out front on every other block, we should have the brightest, most successful kids in the nation, right?  We are bleeding here and so many churches respond by raping and pillaging the desperate.

    I have plenty of my own faults and I don’t relish the fact that the church does these kinds of things.   But I can’t stand to see this abuse being done in the name of God.  Even the most un-churched person can see this is sick.

    PLEASE, "DWO-ites"!  Listen to that still small voice that you have labeled doubt, jealousy, and rebellion.  Its not YOU that has an issue!   Ask to see DETAILED financial statements.  Be a good steward and forget about Santa jesus sending down a jackpot from heaven.

    As far as the "protection" issue….I’m so sick of this stale, old justification.  Get an alarm system or buy a condo in a gated development if this is the case.  You’ll save about $3,350,000.00.

  8. rehabbedchurchgoer Says:

    Big ministries are being investigated by the Senate Finance Committee:

    http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/2007/11/the-ranking-mem.html

    Also included in the investigation are Bishop Eddie Long of the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Ga.; David and Joyce Meyer of Joyce Meyer Ministries in Fenton, Mo.; Creflo and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International in College Park, Pa.; Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Copeland Ministries in Newark, Texas; and Benny Hinn of World Healing center of Grapevine, Texas.

  9. rocky Says:

    A lot has been said regarding the issue of the multi-million dollar home for Pastor Ben and his family. Most of the “so-called” truths you have gotten regarding this issue is from broadcast news, or other less credible sources. A lot can also be said of some preachers living off of the people of God, versus those who have earned their way of living by working hard and making a life for themselves the way the general lay members do. Didn’t Ben Gibert recently hold executive positions at Ford, GM & DCX, and earned an annual salary of 850k/yr + 250K annual bonus? It seems to me that he was living a relatively “prosperous life” before he was led to a pastoral position;(which, after doing research, can’t be said of any of the other televangelists mentioned on this blog). If this is the case, why would he need to “pimp” church members? After their former pastor, (Bishop Jack Wallace) passed, Ben Gibert was called to take over the position as pastor of DWO in 2005 (while still holding the position as Chief Executive Engineer at DCX). He left a high-profile position in Corporate America,to pastor full-time, on a salary less than 200k/yr? The most self-righteous blogger on this site would have questioned God a million times before he/she even thought once about submitting to the call. This doesn’t sound like a man who is “crooked”. Furthermore, how many of you actually live in Detroit or attend DWO? How can you say, with all truth, that none of the tithes/offering are allocated towards helping members of the church, or the less fortunate? Detroit is suffering, not because of one Pastor whom you assume is not doing anything to help change the plight of the city, but because of poor “City Management” and lack of State and Federal Funding. I have been a resident of this city for 31 years, and have seen it’s decline in citizens, jobs, and schools…which has had absolutely nothing to do with him. He has been a pastor in the city for less than 3 years, so why would anyone expect to see Rome rebuilt, with only one man to do it? The shame in this whole situation is not the purchase of a piece of property, yet all of the mudslinging, false accusations, character defamation, and discord. If there was cause to indict him, then so be it, but nothing said is based on fact…just second-hand, heard-it-through-the-grapevine gossip. When the home was purchased by the church, all of the furniture and amenities in the house were left to them by the previous owner; so the “wine tasting” room you speak of was already there (seller’s concession is a common issue with preowned property). I’m not sure why there’s such a big to-do about brick and mortar. It’s just a house. And please, get over all the rhetoric about “buildings being used as altars”. There are a plethora of instances in the Bible where men blessed certain places and used them as altars of worship and consecration unto the Lord. Jesus taught in “temples” and so did the apostles. We all know, technically, they are just brick and mortar, but what isn’t or hasn’t been. Every altar, temple, or sanctuary of worship is just that. It’s a simple matter of symbolism. It’s just like arguing the fact that when we partake of the Lord’s supper, it’s “not really” his body…so why do we refer to it as such? Again, it is SYMBOLIC of the body and blood. If those commenting on this site want to “know” the truth about this issue, which is completely blown out of proportion, (with distorted data)…you should do it in a respectable manner, and prove all things with truth and honesty. Do like the disgruntled ex-member suggests, and ask them to see detailed financial statements. Ask their side of the story, so that you can be held blameless in the sight of God. If they are less than honest, then the Lord will judge them and deal with them accordingly.

  10. IndependentConservative Says:

    rocky says:

    Most of the “so-called” truths you have gotten regarding this issue is from broadcast news, or other less credible
    sources.

    The news report only affirms what I’ve learned from former members of DWO. If you feel they are not reliable, you are no better.

    Don’t go thinking you’re the only one involved with DWO that reads and comments here.

    Regarding the doctrine of that bogus mess like throwing money on a fake “altar” my source is the most reliable of all, The Word of God and what DWO has you doing tossing money at a stoop is BOGUS.

    Didn’t Ben Gibert recently hold executive positions at Ford, GM & DCX, and earned an annual salary of 850k/yr + 250K annual bonus?

    That’s not what paid for the house and you know it. Of if you don’t know it, I can tell you, it didn’t and does not make the payments, the church funds keep that house for him. Which is why it’s owned by the church. Those people (you included it seems) tossing money at a stoop own that house, but have the pimps living in it. Jesus never said to put a pimp in a mansion.

    It seems to me that he was living a relatively “prosperous life” before he was led to a pastoral position;(which, after doing research, can’t be said of any of the other televangelists mentioned on this blog).

    Then Ben should have stayed working at Ford, if it was about living in earthly wealth for him.

    Now he’s a man twisting scripture, to play godliness as a means for earthly gain. He probably didn’t have a house this big when making $850K/year. Does 1 Timothy 6 mean anything to you? Do you not understand using godliness for gain in material wealth is expressly warned against?

    You speak of less reliable sources, I find your knowledge of the situation to be less than some others from what you’re saying so far. You’re handle on scripture certainly is less than some teenagers I know.

    How can you say, with all truth, that none of the tithes/offering are allocated towards helping members of the church, or the less fortunate?

    A very small portion of that fake system of collections called “tithes” goes to help the poor and again I’ll tell you that witnesses with more knowledge of this than yourself have established the fact.

    You’re wallowing in so much bad doctrine you can’t even tell the truth from twists of scripture.


    Detroit is suffering, not because of one Pastor whom you assume is not doing anything to help change the plight of the city, but because of poor “City Management” and lack of State and Federal Funding.

    When Jerusalem suffered a famine, to help the saints there, did the apostles make pleas to government? Did they bark to Caesar? NO! They went to the SAINTS and raised collections, to help fellow saints in need. You speak of running to government, while defending a pimp in a mansion.

    You’re so far from the truth.

    …so why would anyone expect to see Rome rebuilt, with only one man to do it? The shame in this whole situation is not the purchase of a piece of property, yet all of the mudslinging, false accusations, character defamation, and discord.

    Rome? Now you’re really showing you need to stop typing and go read your Bible. The shame of this whole situation, is that a pimp has taken you into bad doctrine and you’re here defending it. If I am all the things you say, I stand with 2 Peter 2 and call your pimp a dog sucking his own vomit, that he dispenses to you, which you attempt to regurgitate on me. I used to eat that filth, thank the Lord He showed me it’s nothing but filthy vomit. I pray He helps you see it for what it really is.


    If there was cause to indict him, then so be it, but nothing said is based on fact…just second-hand, heard-it-through-the-grapevine gossip.

    Nobody said what Ben does is a crime under man’s laws, that would be for government to decide. This is about SCRIPTURE. This is about DOCTRINE. This is about GOD’S LAW NOT MAN’S. Again, I have been informed about this from people who know the truth, not gossip. DWO tossed a reporter out and you stand here defending their concealing instead of being open and having the reporter stay to answer all his questions.


    When the home was purchased by the church, all of the furniture and amenities in the house were left to them by the previous owner; so the “wine tasting” room you speak of was already there (seller’s concession is a common issue with preowned property).

    Now you admit it was not Ben’s former high salary that paid for the house, but you tossed that out earlier, to try and remove scrutiny from him. While you know he probably lives larger than ever before, off what he’s getting from YOU. While you make excuses for not giving more of that money directly to the poor now. Given the church owns the house, what does a church need with a “wine tasting room”. Who cares what was left, now the church owns a “wine tasting room”, for what? Does Ben go there to test what he’ll serve for communion?

    I’m not sure why there’s such a big to-do about brick and mortar. It’s just a house. And please, get over all the rhetoric about “buildings being used as altars”. There are a plethora of instances in the Bible where men blessed certain places and used them as altars of worship and consecration unto the Lord. Jesus taught in “temples” and so did the apostles. We all know, technically, they are just brick and mortar, but what isn’t or hasn’t been. Every altar, temple, or sanctuary of worship is just that. It’s a simple matter of symbolism. It’s just like arguing the fact that when we partake of the Lord’s supper, it’s “not really” his body…so why do we refer to it as such? Again, it is SYMBOLIC of the body and blood.

    What you don’t understand is that the old temple concept is no more and the building is NOT a symbol, we are the temple. With communion, that is an ordinance given from Christ, not to deem buildings temples and stoops altars. Please show IN SCRIPTURE where the apostles deemed a stoop an altar or a building owned by Gentile converts was termed “temple”? The brink and mortar temple is no more, destroyed.

    If those commenting on this site want to “know” the truth about this issue, which is completely blown out of proportion, (with distorted data)…you should do it in a respectable manner, and prove all things with truth and honesty. Do like the disgruntled ex-member suggests, and ask them to see detailed financial statements. Ask their side of the story, so that you can be held blameless in the sight of God. If they are less than honest, then the Lord will judge them and deal with them accordingly.

    The reporter already tried asking, was very respectful and was shown the door. We don’t need to see any more. If Ben wants to be open, he can put it all online with an easy upload of the files. Given what has already happened, nobody needs to trouble him or his staff again, we see he’s fake. It was Ben’s people who were ungodly in tossing the reporter out like that. Ben, if he were honestly a man working in Christ, he would have admonished his attorney, did a full interview with the reporter and turned over all records immediately. It seems we can only see Ben driving away when he’s not pimping you for your cash and having you treat a stoop like the Holy Spirit rest on it :roll: .

    God WILL judge him and if he does not repent his judgement will feature a lake of fire and him being tossed into it.

    rocky reply on January 16th, 2008 at 2:05 am :

    First, let me begin by saying that I will not defer to the “house” situation, as it is a moot point. Your knowledge on giving is about as deep as a broken toothpick in the soil. The Bible is the only resource we have concerning our finances. Ask God for real revelation, and maybe you won’t be so restless about it. Most people COMPLAINING about tithing and giving are those who are stingy, and always find themselves in lack. Tithing is not a commandment, but a principal of giving that can be followed. Get over it, there are many other ways we worship the Lord with our increase. But, the real issue we are dealing with here is whether or not you, or anyone else making comments on this site, or whether those you mock and scorn are more detestable in the site of God. No, you may not own or will ever buy a multi-million dollar home, but you sure are guilty of many of the most abhorrent sins that disgusts God the most: (talebearing, gossip, sowing discord among the brethren, false witness, hating your brother, and being devoid of the love of God and the fruit of the Spirit). Prov 26:20-22; Talebearing is the root of strife in the family of God. Prov 6:12-19 states that “a worthless person, a man of iniquity, is he that walketh with a perverse mouth…he points his finger…he sows discord. Further in the text, vv16-19, lists seven things abominable in the site of God (you should know them, because your are guilty of six)…”a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that deviseth wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to mischief, a false witness who speaks lies, and he that sows discord among the brethren.” Usually, those who engage in this type of sinful, divisive behavior have lack of work performed in the Kingdom, or lack of purpose. It is the way of the ungodly to dig up evil and sow strife; yet you commend, applaud, and advocate the efforts of the media in destroying God’s people. You cry that the actions of these Pastors bring reproach on the body of Christ, and that something should be done about it (by any means necessary). You are too full of yourself to even discern that your actions are just as reproachful. There is only one accuser of the brethren, and that is our adversary, the devil. He is getting a kick out of kicking butt on both ends…to see a brother taken in a fault, while his brother chides in with satan, and the sinful gaukers to destroy him, is certainly NOT God-glorifying behavior. Who’s the real sucker? Satan has recruited you, and you’re to blinded by your own lust for prattle to even see it. Maybe YOU should get a better handle on the scriptures (as it pertains to the words and character that defile you). You can sure QUOTE the Word; but, only when it makes you feel comfortable believing someone else is a lot worse off than you. You hear gossip and are quick to tell it to another…THE JUICIER THE BETTER! RIGHT? Does tearing others down through gossip feed your pride, and make your belly satisfied? That’s the same kind of stinking, detestable pride Jesus spoke about regarding the self-righteous Pharisees. A man that does not love his brother, does not have the love of God in him…your fruit exposes who you really are. Spreading seeds of discord will only reap vile, bitter, hateful, proud, self righteous, perpetual liars. You will only produce fruit in a thornbush. And, because you have no love, “you abide in death.” You’re the whited wall; walking in dead works, deceiving yourself and deceiving others into believing that what you are doing pleases God. Your work is a sin before God, and is listed among the murderers and thieves. While you’re sitting back condemning others to hell fire and eternal damnation, you’d better make sure your fire extinguisher is ready, because “God will cut off the slanderer.” (Ps 101:5) The Bible also says that, “we are not to speak evil of a brother” (James 4:11), or of anyone else, for that matter (*** 3:1-2). Practice temperance in this manner, keep your mind occupied with the REAL things of God, and not man; else this will become a god to you (if it already hasn’t). What men do and how the Lord will deal with them is way out of your jurisdiction. Do more praying and less prattling. His directive for us in regards to our hurt brothers is to pray for them and restore them (once you have been restored). Maybe that’s the problem; you don’t know how or cannot restore anyone, because your mind is still being renewed. If you followed the Word of God like you profess, you would know to seek the Wisdom of God on how to deal with men, and to be gracious and patient to all. Where is your admonition to other believers to pray. Your behavior is certainly no way to “provke one another to good works.” Contrarily, you envoke a spirit of darkness, unrest, strife, hate, and a hunger for blood and destruction. It’s like a den full of demons heckling, and reveling in the shame of God’s children. Where’s the sense of compassion Jesus preached about? It is GOD who “chastens whom He loves”; redirects us when we go astray; is longsuffering and compassionate; shows us everlasting love, and forgiveness, grace & mercy, and gives us peace. His desire is for you and the rest of His children to learn to live in peace and do the same. It would behoove you and the rest of the brethren (professing to be “loving” children of Light to meditate on these scriptures about Love):

    1Cor. 13:4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    Love one another
    John 13:34 “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. ”

    John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. ”

    John 15:17 “I am giving you these commands so that you may love one another.”

    Rom. 12:10 “Love one another with mutual affection; outdo one another in showing honor.”

    Rom. 13:8 “Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.”

    1Ths. 4:9 “Now concerning love of the brothers and sisters, you do not need to have anyone write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another; ”

    1Pet. 1:22 “Now that you have purified your souls by your obedience to the truth so that you have genuine mutual love, love one another deeply from the heart. ”

    1John 3:11 “For this is the message you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”

    1John 3:14 “We know that we have passed from death to life because we love one another. Whoever does not love abides in death. ”

    1John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.”

    1John 4:7 “Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. ”

    1John 4:11 “Beloved, since God loved us so much, we also ought to love one another. ”

    1John 4:12 “No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.”

    2John 5 “But now, dear lady, I ask you, not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but one we have had from the beginning, let us love one another.”

    1John 4:20 Those who say, “I love God,” and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.

    IndependentConservative reply on January 16th, 2008 at 12:21 pm :

    rocky said:

    Most people COMPLAINING about tithing and giving are those who are stingy, and always find themselves in lack.

    I’ve got no problem with “tithing”. It was real. I’ve got a problem with contrived systems of collections that are fake and used to fleece the sheep. Like you, I once didn’t read my Bible well and spoke just like you do now, in ignorance. Then I learned better praise God. How about you tell us the name of the apostle who told the church to pay 10% of money wages from labor? How about you tell us the case where Jesus accepted a tithe? Tell us which apostle took tithes? You’re engaged in a man contrived system of collections, that was given the title “tithe”, to keep you deceived. It’s not a tithe at all and you’re not pleasing God in legalistic efforts, to bind yourself to law that Christ went on a cross to spare you from the curse of. So I’m not cursed, I know Jesus.

    Galatians 3:10-14 (New American Standard Bible)

    10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”

    11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

    12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”

    13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”–

    14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    But since you like that thing called “tithing” that is not, how about you list for us the exemptions from scripture? Here’s a hint, the people you claim are in lack should receive a tithe, not be paying one if we are to uphold tithing. If I lack, I’m exempt according to the law. If you’re paying down debt, you’re not in increase, you’re in lack and denying it in words. While making that monthly payment because you know the truth of your debt.

    Again, I’m not under the law, so I don’t seek to uphold a tithe to you.

    Tithing is not a commandment, but a principal of giving that can be followed.

    Than why would anyone have “lack” when not doing it by what you’ve said? You’re contradicting yourself, given that garbage pimps have fed to you. That vomit you need the Holy Spirit to cleanse you of. Hey, as I said, I once had that vomit too. But there is hope if you really desire the truth.

    Hang out at InYourBible.com for a while and learn about what’s in that book you’ve been using as a neat prop for too long.

    (talebearing, gossip, sowing discord among the brethren, false witness, hating your brother, and being devoid of the love of God and the fruit of the Spirit). Prov 26:20-22;

    If you read your Bible more you’d realize it’s the man you defend who does those things. I don’t hate anyone. I desire you come to know the truth. Perhaps God will grant repentance and allow Ben to know the truth one day too.

    …he points his finger…he sows discord. Further in the text, vv16-19, lists seven things abominable in the site of God (you should know them, because your are guilty of six)…

    Now look who’s pointing the finger.

    have lack of work performed in the Kingdom, or lack of purpose.

    There’s performance and then there is “performance” for the sake of SWINDLING. I covet no man’s treasure. Your “lack of purpose” garbage sounds like the Charles Finney mess, that I’m sure you get regular doses of. It’s always mixed in that vomit. Remember, I know all the games you’re being played on because I’ve been part of it once too. Try clicking some of the links to helpful information that I offer to you.

    yet you commend, applaud, and advocate the efforts of the media in destroying God’s people.

    You commend, applaud and advocate the efforts of a man who destroys himself and you along with him. Having been warned about him, you have no more excuse.

    You cry that the actions of these Pastors bring reproach on the body of Christ, and that something should be done about it (by any means necessary).

    I don’t quote dead Muslims who burn in hell (El-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz aka Malcom X), I quote scripture.
    Ephesians 5:11 (New American Standard Bible)

    11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

    Your most interesting statement.

    There is only one accuser of the brethren, and that is our adversary, the devil.

    Now you’ve explained why you are here accusing me. You defend the evil and accuse those who expose it!

    Who’s the real sucker?

    The one who puts up with bad doctrine.

    Satan has recruited you, and you’re to blinded by your own lust for prattle to even see it. Maybe YOU should get a better handle on the scriptures (as it pertains to the words and character that defile you). You can sure QUOTE the Word; but, only when it makes you feel comfortable believing someone else is a lot worse off than you.

    You defend who you think is an angle of light, but is not, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. I don’t want your 10%, I’d rather you help your family and those in need with it.

    You hear gossip and are quick to tell it to another…THE JUICIER THE BETTER! RIGHT?

    I’m here to help the sheep and you said I quote scriptures, I don’t do this for the sake of gossip.

    You have decided against speaking on the house of the pimp, because now you’re spending a number of words to speak against me. Remember who you said is the accuser of saints.

    Does tearing others down through gossip feed your pride, and make your belly satisfied?

    Seeing someone continue in delusion makes me sorry for you. The Lord will deliver you if you read and study your Bible more. There is hope for you, but not infinite time for you to find it.

    Matthew 7:13-14 (New American Standard Bible)

    13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

    14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    The broad road and seeking earthly riches is what will take many to destruction. Just like Christ said in the parable of the sower, that folks like you and John Hagee continually trip on. You’ve got to get off that road. Ask God for wisdom and He will give it to you.

    That’s the same kind of stinking, detestable pride Jesus spoke about regarding the self-righteous Pharisees.

    Read Matthew 23 and think about Ben and your claims about 10% or going into lack.

    You will only produce fruit in a thornbush.

    You really need to learn that parable correctly, because you just don’t know what you are saying.

    you’d better make sure your fire extinguisher is ready

    I’ve got the Lord in Spirit and in truth. But I can’t force truth on you.

    The Bible also says that, “we are not to speak evil of a brother” (James 4:11)

    The Bible says boot the swindlers and workers of covetousness who claim the Lord’s name, 1 Corinthians 5.

    What men do and how the Lord will deal with them is way out of your jurisdiction.

    1 Corinthians 5, if the Lord wills you will read and if the Lord wills the Holy Spirit will help you understand your view of it is totally wrong.

    If you are the Lord’s one day you’ll come to know the truth, as He helped me (and others you see making comments here) see when I(we) was where you are spiritually right now. I walked in that deluded vomit and nobody could tell me different till the Lord willed I come to the truth.

    Love is what causes on brother to warn the sheep, 1 Thessalonians 5:14.

  11. IndependentConservative Says:

    A defender of the false prosperity doctrine and false teacher Ben Gibert named Stephen Burgor attempted to comment here.

    Stephen Burgor, I’ve dumped your first attempt at commenting, because you included two lengthy comments you said you posted other places, while you did not name those places. If you’re going to post here something you’ve been debating with others elsewhere, I want to know exactly where. I want to see it there with what others said, to see if they tried to help you find sound doctrine, because you’re way off.

    I confess Jesus as my Lord, Savior and ONLY means anyone has to the Father and only hope for eternal life. But I suspect the Jesus you claim is a false big money Jesus, rather than the true Jesus who is not at all having us seek any of this world’s riches.

    I want to see how much others tried to help you, because if you’ve rejected others, I’m not going to waste time with you.

    Go read 1 Timothy 6 in full, Lord willing the Holy Spirit will allow you to see the truth in it. If you want old covenant riches you should live by the old covenant Law and you’ll be condemned by it. I have the Grace of a New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) and it’s not one that features promises of big money in this life.

    You can attempt another comment, but if you’re going to include stuff from elsewhere, I want you to include links to those places. Depending on what you might have already rejected in the way of sound doctrine, I might not spend another moment with you here. So post the links.

    IndependentConservative reply on June 16th, 2008 at 3:24 pm :

    And perhaps you should try reading the comments that are already here.

    IndependentConservative reply on June 23rd, 2008 at 9:31 am :

    I’ve got good reason to believe that Steve Burgor is simply a DWO drone that has no desire for truth and is only seeking to waste my time with DWO lies. Stop trying to comment here Steve Burgor and go read your Bible. I’m shutting all the ACCOUNTS you’ve tried to setup down.

    I want to point out that Steve/Stephen Burgor is a name that can be seen here on the DWO club web site. See the listing for “Crystal Burgor”. A lady named “Crystal Burgor” who is on the DWO club “executive team” is married to a man named Stephen.

    Stephen, you and your wife go have a read of 1 Timothy 6, tell Ben to stop his lies and FLEE from that mess you’re in.

  12. Prowwess Says:

    I know this article was from quite some time ago but I was a member of DWO for about 5 years. I left when Elder Ben took over. The reason I left was partly because of the money but partly because of something else. It was something he said several times to many people. He said that he was not supposed to be a head pastor ever in his life. And that God himself told him that! I can almost guarantee I could come up with audio proof of this. Now God is never changing correct? His word shall never change also. So why is he running this church now? I go to a small church now with a Pastor that used to be affiliated with DWO. I left because I needed to hear the true word of God and could not stand anymore for the money money money preaching. I asked DWO elders to help me many times with financial problems, not just me but my family also. We were turned down every time. This is a sick cult of people that give weird offerings for ignorant reasons. They come up with any reason to give a “special” offering. Trust me I know from experience. I am saddened for any one person that follows this teaching. God bless and thank the Father God himself for releasing me from this horrible bondage.

    IndependentConservative reply on March 29th, 2009 at 8:47 pm :

    Thank God through our Lord Jesus that He led you out of there. Lord willing, your testimony will help someone else.

  13. Prowwess Says:

    I hope so also. If anyone that has been going to this church for some time see’s this, I am sure they will know what I am talking about. It’s no secret what he proclaimed. There is no doubt about it. I even brought it up to some brothers who knew exactly what I was talking about. They said to go up to the pulpit and ask him about it. I never got a chance to. He left before I could and I never went back. I hope and pray the Father through our Lord Jesus someone someday will. Maybe I’ll have to make a trip back. Only if led of course. Praise God!

  14. joehardee Says:

    to many people are duped because they arent being a berean according to Acts 17:1. Instead they just believe in what the pastor /minister instead check on what was said according to scripture.

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