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	<title>Comments on: Creflo Says, He Don&#8217;t Need No Stinkin&#8217; Outside Christian Oversight!</title>
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	<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/</link>
	<description>The Independent Conservative saying what needs to be said!</description>
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		<title>By: Gxg--G2</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6790</link>
		<dc:creator>Gxg--G2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6790</guid>
		<description>In case anyone may&#039;ve missed it, please go here to check it out. Government&#039;s finally beginning a shakedown of the SIX MAJOR MINISTRIES to see whether or not they really have nothing to hide......&amp; whether or not they&#039;re using their tax-excempt status to support extremely LAVISH lifestyles:


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/cbsnews_investigates/main3456977.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/cbsnews_investigates/main3456977.shtml&lt;/a&gt;

P.S: Yes, Bro IC, the shakedown was set in motion by the actions of 
Ole Anthony, who &#160;is mentioned,...... and he&#039;s generally pretty thorough in his efforts - been trying to get Jakes for years, but hasn&#039;t been able to. But he&#039;s the one who took Tilton, and W.V.Grant out. That said, despite how his actions have been contrary to Scripture elsewhere, thankfully he got the ball rolling on things.......

Gotta give props for the&#160; &quot;financial fraud&quot; watch dogs as well as the &quot;Heresy Hunters&quot; (lol, lol, lol).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case anyone may&#8217;ve missed it, please go here to check it out. Government&#8217;s finally beginning a shakedown of the SIX MAJOR MINISTRIES to see whether or not they really have nothing to hide&#8230;&#8230;&amp; whether or not they&#8217;re using their tax-excempt status to support extremely LAVISH lifestyles:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/cbsnews_investigates/main3456977.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/cbsnews_investigates/main3456977.shtml</a></p>
<p>P.S: Yes, Bro IC, the shakedown was set in motion by the actions of<br />
Ole Anthony, who &nbsp;is mentioned,&#8230;&#8230; and he&#8217;s generally pretty thorough in his efforts &#8211; been trying to get Jakes for years, but hasn&#8217;t been able to. But he&#8217;s the one who took Tilton, and W.V.Grant out. That said, despite how his actions have been contrary to Scripture elsewhere, thankfully he got the ball rolling on things&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Gotta give props for the&nbsp; &quot;financial fraud&quot; watch dogs as well as the &quot;Heresy Hunters&quot; (lol, lol, lol).</p>
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		<title>By: SloppyThoughts</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6622</link>
		<dc:creator>SloppyThoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6622</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification, Independent Conservative.  I understand where you are coming from with this now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, Independent Conservative.  I understand where you are coming from with this now.</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6588</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6588</guid>
		<description>Exactly.  A NON-PROFIT with nothing to hide should be able to hand over the information with no problem.

A church should hand the information over in full to all who request it.  So no man can speak ill of the church.  Hence just posting the full register on their web sites would be so much easier.

It&#039;s not like anyone is asking to see Creflo&#039;s PERSONAL financial documents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  A NON-PROFIT with nothing to hide should be able to hand over the information with no problem.</p>
<p>A church should hand the information over in full to all who request it.  So no man can speak ill of the church.  Hence just posting the full register on their web sites would be so much easier.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not like anyone is asking to see Creflo&#8217;s PERSONAL financial documents.</p>
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		<title>By: art123</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6587</link>
		<dc:creator>art123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6587</guid>
		<description>If Dollar&#039;s ministry was well managed, then he wouldn&#039;t have to worry about some stinking outside Christian overhead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Dollar&#8217;s ministry was well managed, then he wouldn&#8217;t have to worry about some stinking outside Christian overhead.</p>
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		<title>By: mjones</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6561</link>
		<dc:creator>mjones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 03:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6561</guid>
		<description>Cref made the typical side step.  Rather than saying homosexuality is sin and should be judged as we judge others, he says &quot;We want to single out Homosexuality and ignore the rest.&quot;  Basically, that&#039;s not true.  Yes stealing is a sin.  Denominations don&#039;t allow someone who is a known thief to take a position of leadership.  Homosexuality is a sin.  So how come denominations allow a person who is a known homosexual to assume a position of leadership?  

I believe you are correct.  Speaking out against homosexuality would have cost Cashflow way too much money, both in legal fees and a drop in his contributions from offended followers.  

Remember, these people follow him only as long as he tickles their ears, not if he forces them to make hard choices and moral decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cref made the typical side step.  Rather than saying homosexuality is sin and should be judged as we judge others, he says &#8220;We want to single out Homosexuality and ignore the rest.&#8221;  Basically, that&#8217;s not true.  Yes stealing is a sin.  Denominations don&#8217;t allow someone who is a known thief to take a position of leadership.  Homosexuality is a sin.  So how come denominations allow a person who is a known homosexual to assume a position of leadership?  </p>
<p>I believe you are correct.  Speaking out against homosexuality would have cost Cashflow way too much money, both in legal fees and a drop in his contributions from offended followers.  </p>
<p>Remember, these people follow him only as long as he tickles their ears, not if he forces them to make hard choices and moral decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Gxg--G2</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6559</link>
		<dc:creator>Gxg--G2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6559</guid>
		<description>You also forgot the &quot;Touch Not My Anointed&quot; one......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also forgot the &#8220;Touch Not My Anointed&#8221; one&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: IndependentConservative</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6558</link>
		<dc:creator>IndependentConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6558</guid>
		<description>Sloppythoughts, please let me assist you with a few things.

You&#039;ve cited &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%204:4-6;&amp;version=49;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1 Corinthians 4:4-6&lt;/a&gt;, but lost the truth of that message.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&amp;chapter=3&amp;version=49&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1 Corinthians 3&lt;/a&gt;.  That is the later part of Paul addressing an issue where people were claiming they were of Apollos versus Paul.  Also in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%204:2;&amp;version=49;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1 Corinthians 4:2&lt;/a&gt; a verse before your citation it is noted that &lt;b&gt;&quot;it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

This was a case of people judging a man Paul planted to minister to saints.  A man who was not found to be in fault himself, unlike Creflo.  So judgments of Apollos had no merit.  He goes on in chapter 4 to speak of how those who were passing judgment needed to follow his example of piety.  How he suffered persecution and lived homeless.  He was telling them that they need to STOP LIVING LIKE CREFLO DOLLAR AND TRYING TO SPEAK ABOUT MEN WHO GAVE THEIR ALL FOR THE GOSPEL.

Now lets take it a chapter further in Paul&#039;s letter to the churches in Corinth.  I&#039;m going to embolden a few words for your benefit.

&lt;b&gt;1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (New American Standard Bible)&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;

 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.

 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any &lt;b&gt;so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous&lt;/b&gt;, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a &lt;b&gt;swindler--not even to eat with such a one.&lt;/b&gt;

 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dollar expresses covetousness.  

If I tell you that you can give me money and obtain wealth, I am a swindler.  Read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%208:20&amp;version=49&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Acts 8:20&lt;/a&gt;.  The apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ deemed that telling people they can get the Holy Spirit to move via money to be heresy.

So what is being said about liar Dollar is on firm scriptural foundation.  The pimps use the &quot;don&#039;t judge&quot; lines to keep themselves from being excommunicated as God through Christ by way of the Holy Spirit instructed his apostle Paul to instruct us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sloppythoughts, please let me assist you with a few things.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve cited <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%204:4-6;&amp;version=49;" rel="nofollow">1 Corinthians 4:4-6</a>, but lost the truth of that message.  See <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&amp;chapter=3&amp;version=49" rel="nofollow">1 Corinthians 3</a>.  That is the later part of Paul addressing an issue where people were claiming they were of Apollos versus Paul.  Also in <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%204:2;&amp;version=49;" rel="nofollow">1 Corinthians 4:2</a> a verse before your citation it is noted that <b>&#8220;it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>This was a case of people judging a man Paul planted to minister to saints.  A man who was not found to be in fault himself, unlike Creflo.  So judgments of Apollos had no merit.  He goes on in chapter 4 to speak of how those who were passing judgment needed to follow his example of piety.  How he suffered persecution and lived homeless.  He was telling them that they need to STOP LIVING LIKE CREFLO DOLLAR AND TRYING TO SPEAK ABOUT MEN WHO GAVE THEIR ALL FOR THE GOSPEL.</p>
<p>Now lets take it a chapter further in Paul&#8217;s letter to the churches in Corinth.  I&#8217;m going to embolden a few words for your benefit.</p>
<p><b>1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (New American Standard Bible)</b></p>
<blockquote><p>
 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;</p>
<p> 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.</p>
<p> 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any <b>so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous</b>, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a <b>swindler&#8211;not even to eat with such a one.</b></p>
<p> 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?</p>
<p> 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Dollar expresses covetousness.  </p>
<p>If I tell you that you can give me money and obtain wealth, I am a swindler.  Read <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%208:20&amp;version=49" rel="nofollow">Acts 8:20</a>.  The apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ deemed that telling people they can get the Holy Spirit to move via money to be heresy.</p>
<p>So what is being said about liar Dollar is on firm scriptural foundation.  The pimps use the &#8220;don&#8217;t judge&#8221; lines to keep themselves from being excommunicated as God through Christ by way of the Holy Spirit instructed his apostle Paul to instruct us.</p>
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		<title>By: KyleAndrews</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6557</link>
		<dc:creator>KyleAndrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6557</guid>
		<description>Sloppythoughts,

No matter how much info we give, people like yourself always try to defend the pimps in certain ways.  What does providing a Financial statement and critiquing the fact that Millions go to the Pastor while peanuts go to those in need.  I presented a financial statement of Paula White that clearly shows the expenses for Management i.e., salaries is higher than for missions.  What does it take for some people to wake up?  Would it take Creflo himself pocketing the offerings on TV in front of a camera?  This stuff is such an open shut case.  And as for judging a mans heart let me inform you that the heart of man is inherently evil.  That includes you, me, and Creflo.  However I rely on the Holy Ghost because when I lean on my own inclinations I sin.   

Kyle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sloppythoughts,</p>
<p>No matter how much info we give, people like yourself always try to defend the pimps in certain ways.  What does providing a Financial statement and critiquing the fact that Millions go to the Pastor while peanuts go to those in need.  I presented a financial statement of Paula White that clearly shows the expenses for Management i.e., salaries is higher than for missions.  What does it take for some people to wake up?  Would it take Creflo himself pocketing the offerings on TV in front of a camera?  This stuff is such an open shut case.  And as for judging a mans heart let me inform you that the heart of man is inherently evil.  That includes you, me, and Creflo.  However I rely on the Holy Ghost because when I lean on my own inclinations I sin.   </p>
<p>Kyle</p>
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		<title>By: Gxg--G2</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6556</link>
		<dc:creator>Gxg--G2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6556</guid>
		<description>Hi Sloppy Thoughts.....

If I may say, the context of I Corinthians 4:4-6 was dealing with judging other Christians, evaluating whether or not they are good followers of Christ....but only God knows a person&#039;s heart, &amp; He is the ONLY one with the right to judge. Paul&#039;s warning to the Corinthians should also warn us....for we are to confront those who are sinning (I Corinthians 5:12-13), but we must judge not who is a better servant of Christ. 

When we judge someone, we invariably consider ourselves better--&amp; that is arrogant. 

Discernment, however, is a different issue. And we have been called by SCRIPTURE to judge the works of those who claim the name of CHrist but whose actions go CONTRARY TO THAT. Without judging (as in, comparing what we see/hear with what the Word says, we cannot gauge correct doctrine.....nor truly be able to know what&#039;s of God &amp; what&#039;s not.)

 For your consideration:

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sloppy Thoughts&#8230;..</p>
<p>If I may say, the context of I Corinthians 4:4-6 was dealing with judging other Christians, evaluating whether or not they are good followers of Christ&#8230;.but only God knows a person&#8217;s heart, &amp; He is the ONLY one with the right to judge. Paul&#8217;s warning to the Corinthians should also warn us&#8230;.for we are to confront those who are sinning (I Corinthians 5:12-13), but we must judge not who is a better servant of Christ. </p>
<p>When we judge someone, we invariably consider ourselves better&#8211;&amp; that is arrogant. </p>
<p>Discernment, however, is a different issue. And we have been called by SCRIPTURE to judge the works of those who claim the name of CHrist but whose actions go CONTRARY TO THAT. Without judging (as in, comparing what we see/hear with what the Word says, we cannot gauge correct doctrine&#8230;..nor truly be able to know what&#8217;s of God &amp; what&#8217;s not.)</p>
<p> For your consideration:</p>
<p><a href="http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htm" rel="nofollow">http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Praiser4Life</title>
		<link>http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/comment-page-1/#comment-6555</link>
		<dc:creator>Praiser4Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/10/19/creflo_against_saintly_oversight/#comment-6555</guid>
		<description>Members = ONLY TITHERS!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Members = ONLY TITHERS!!</p>
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