Rekjalhew

October 17, 2007

Bob Jones III Promotes the Cult of the Golden Elephant (and Joseph Smith Jr.)! Endorses Mitt Romney.

by @ 1:01 am. Filed under Nuts on Parade

Let’s all put our faith in God aside, enter the voting booth and vote for Conservative values. That is what people like Bob Jones III are saying when they claim Christianity, but endorse someone THEY KNOW is in a cult of heresy and THEY KNOW people not in such a cult probably will also be running for President. Suddenly, instead of standing on what you believe and avoiding promotion of a cult, that comes 2nd to Conservative values. While this blog’s title is Independent Conservative, which I am, I am a Christian FIRST. I was under the mistaken impression once upon a time that many Christians who are Conservatives felt the same, but apparently keeping the GOP ELEPHANT in power means more than anything for some. So they’ll promote a known cult drone who flip-flops on the issues, just so the GOP gets a win. Just my opinion, but I feel many worship the RNC more highly than Jesus Christ. Just as some Liberals worship things like keeping abortion legal more than anything. It’s all about values, but they’ll forsake the suffering that might come by standing with a candidate that is not sold out to a cult.

This is not about voting for a Presidential candidate who has all their theological points in agreement with me, but certainly I’m not trying to endorse a cult either. A Mitt Romney Presidency would promote the cult of Joseph Smith Junior (Mormonism) like never before. It would fulfill the dream that cult’s founder attempted to achieve himself, to be President of the USA.

Bob Jones was behind Team Bush, Team Bush is behind Romney and now Bob Jones has followed suit.

Bob Jones III endorses Romney for president

Dr. Bob Jones III, chancellor of the fundamentalist Christian university that bears his name, is looking past his religious differences with Gov. Mitt Romney and endorsing the Mormon for the Republican nomination for president, he told The Greenville News today.

“This is all about beating Hillary,” Jones said. “And I just believe that this man has the credentials both personally and ideologically in terms of his view about what American government should be to best represent the rank and file of conservative Americans.

So is Bob Jone’s priority Christians or Conservatives? While many Christian views line up with Conservative values, Christianity does not equal Conservative.


Asked whether Romney?s religion was a stumbling block for him, Jones replied, “What is the alternative, Hillary?s lack of religion or an erroneous religion?

“As a Christian I am completely opposed to the doctrines of Mormonism,” he said.

And those are the words of a man who is mentally locked in a 2 party box. Instead of voting for the BEST CANDIDATE regardless of what everyone else votes for, this man will vote with the masses to endorse a cult member.

This part of a quote from Jones says it best.


It boils down to who can best represent conservative American beliefs, not religious beliefs.

So Jones is basically saying faith does not matter when it comes to who he will seek to have rule over him in government. I feel, when given the choice and there are always more than 2 for President, I have the freedom to consider all factors, faith included. And I vote for the candidate who best represents my views, even if the rest of America disagrees with my choice.


During the 2000 primary, then-Gov. George W. Bush drew heat after visiting the university, which at that time banned interracial dating. Jones soon dropped the ban, saying it wasn?t important enough to be worth the controversy.

You know, once they let the racial hang-up go, I was willing to forgive that. Now they’ve crossed a line that is even deeper than race for me. They’ve compromised in a way they know advances a cult. Even when we disagreed about racial matters, we knew what one must do to be saved. (Although his views on race were spawned from Satan, because he showed partiality based on race between saints and that could have landed him in hell, James 2.) Now Bob Jones III is endorsing a man who will cause more people to consider aligning themselves with a cult. I wonder if Bob Jones III allowed a White Mormon to hold hands with one of his White Christian students of the opposite sex on the campus of his University, back when they banned Black and White Christians of the opposite sex from doing so?


Some religious conservatives were quick to denounce Jones? endorsement.

“As Christians we should not endorse a cult member as our president,” Wayne Owens Sr., a self-described rank-and-file conservative Christian said in an e-mail to The News. “Bob Jones? basic premise is in error. It is not about beating Hillary. It?s about doing what is right.”

Tamara Valdes-Russell, a 1997 BJU graduate, said she is “disgusted” with Jones? supporting Romney.

“Fear of Hillary Clinton should not be the driving force for whom we choose to support in an election,” she said in an e-mail to The News. “?In the end, whether Hillary wins or someone else, God is ultimately in control of the situation. I refuse to lower my standards to the lowest common denominator.”

Notice Tamara Valdes-Russell gets it. Fear is not the driving force for the Christian. No matter who wins, God’s perfect plan will continue on course to completion. We saints try and endorse who we feel will best serve our interests, but that does not mean we should do something that will encourage Americans to consider a cult that teaches of another jesus. Like endorsing a cult member to the highest office in the land.

Romans 13:1 (New King James Version)

1) Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

This means that all who assume earthly leadership are placed there by God’s will of who should assume the post in the fulfillment of His plan. We might not enjoy who has the post, but in the end God will be glorified. And regardless of who has political power, that is not who rules our hearts.

Colossians 3:15-17 (New King James Version)

15) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.

16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

17) And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

So God rules and we know He is above all, Christ the Son of God and God who came to earth in flesh (Colossians 2:8-10) is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Whatever I do, I should do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. That means even when I walk into the voting booth, it’s to be done with my TRUE LORD in mind. So I can’t do something to advance a cult. If I lived in Utah and all Mormons are on the ballot, it’s a given the cult already runs the place, so voting for a Mormon does nothing to advance what is already there and covering the ballot. However, we have far more choices available and it’s sad to see some short change a real best option in the name of politics, winning and the Golden Elephant of the GOP remaining in power.


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41 Responses to “Bob Jones III Promotes the Cult of the Golden Elephant (and Joseph Smith Jr.)! Endorses Mitt Romney.”

  1. KyleAndrews Says:

    IC,

    This does not surprise me. What You and I have seen is Christ getting diminished and the GOP being brought to the level of a god. You see many “so-called” Christians endorsing candidates who by no means are Christians. Sean Hannity is promoting Rudy and he claims to be a Christian. (Albeit a Catholic) Every day we are TOLD you have to vote for Rudy, Mitt, Thompson or your voting for Hillary. When are we as Christians going to stand up and walk off the GOP plantation? I’m sick and tired of being vamboozled by those in Christianity and in Politics that think we are their lackys.

    Kyle

  2. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Nonetheless,

    There are many out there who feel that to vote for someone who isn’t likely to get elected is more foolish than voting for someone who is but who doesn’t share the same values as you do.

    This is something I experienced first-hand when the 2004 PREsidential election occured between Bush & Kerry. After studying both of them, I felt that both had values I thought were UNBIBLICAL (Kerry with abortion/homosexuality and Bush with many of the policies he implemented in his reign as well as the many hyprocrisies he demonstrated, IMO)……AND I decided to vote for another party altogether that didn;t get promoted but seemed to be in line with the vlaues of Scripture most accurately.

    When others asked me of my decisions, I was labeled foolish for not voting either Republuican or Democrat & not living in the reality that those were going to have the most influence were not going to be in line with my values .

  3. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Basically, it was an issue of “practicality” for most people who labeled me……with the reasoning being “We live in an imperfect world, with IMPERFECT LEADERSHIP, & should stop trying to look for the perfect solution……..you have no choice but to choose the lesser of two evils since that’s the only realistic option you’ve got.”

    That still has me dumbfounded a bit, though I continue trying to vote for whatever party/president seems to be most in line with the Standards of God’s Word.

    I’ve heard of argument saying that says the founders of our nation weren’t necessarily in line with Christian values…..that many of them were DIESTs & Masons, which seemed to give them the appearance of Christian values.

    Many people have said that If the same was true of them then but they established solid principles for our country (despite how DEMONIC MASONRY is and DEADLY as well), then there should be no deal with being picky in today’s leadership.

    Of course, I’m seeking to do more research on the subject since HISTORICAL REVISIONISM is something our nation is famous for, especially when it comes to anything dealing with Christianity & whatever influence it has had the development/progress of our nation. But it seemed like something to investigate……

  4. KyleAndrews Says:

    GxG,

    I agree. However it still does not diminish the fact that the Republican party has the conservative Christian vote lock, stock, and barrel. In other words they take us for granted. It is no different than the Democrats abuse of the Black vote. I’m sure IC probably has got a few wide eye looks when he tells other blacks that he’s conservative. As a Christian I feel like I’m being used and when I object to the present candidates it’s as if I’m somehow not “part of the team”. I’m sick of this group think. You now have many “so-called” Christian groups endorsing Mitt only because he is part of a quasi-Christian sect. This guy is a Liberal who ran a Liberal state of Massachusetts. It was only when he decided to run for President that he moved to the right. Trust me I’ll vote for whoever the Republican candidate is. I will however do it with much disdain.

    Kyle

  5. healtheland Says:

    This is getting so disheartening that it is increasingly more difficult to deal with. Bob Jones University, despite their “problems”, was one of the last strongholds of fundamentalism left.

  6. IndependentConservative Says:

    KyleAndrews said:

    Trust me I’ll vote for whoever the Republican candidate is. I will however do it with much disdain.

    Do you understand how toxic it would be to place a Mormon into the White House? The first thing that will be noted is that he’s the first Mormon. Then people will see those lying young boys in the white button down shirts on their doorsteps and beleive all the lies told to them, because if the President is into it, they’ll figure it might be a good thing.

    (When those guys came to my house, we had a long talk, but they were not happy that I refused to beleive revelation, and there are many versions of that supposed revelation, could come from a man who after the resurrection of Christ had over 30 wives and just so happened to come up with twisted revelations to justify his evil in his own heart. And a jesus with a father who has a father is a total heresy they really didn’t like that I knew about. They claimed I didn’t understand, but once I explained that I’ve read their D&C lies, they couldn’t cover it up any longer and eventually I sent them on their way, because I had hedges to finish cutting and they preferred sticking with the lie. So I had them leave with my departing message that they should learn the truth. They were not happy either that I didn’t bid them goodbye. And I talk with cult followers who preach another jesus outside, I never allow them into my home. I don’t remember if I said hello to them, but I should not have even said that if I mistakenly said hello 2 John 1:10-11)

    This is about potential advancement of a false christ. Liberals and Conservatives disagree, but minus the Mormon we draw principles from and show some respect for the Bible. Mormons see the Bible as 2nd in their priority list, to the writings of Joseph Smith Junior and the LDS cult. Really from my discussions with various Mormons, they’ve got a better grasp of the Old Covenant than the New and I guess that’s required to establish a good cult these days.

    Check out Mitt Romney and Mormonism. A Message From Our Brothers in Utah..

    Then lets talk some more. I’ve got lots more we can discuss once you’re done with that.

    Our #1 priority is to advance Jesus Christ. Putting a man who promotes another jesus into the White House will impair the effort.

    Gxg–G2 – The revisions of historical record have actually downplayed how big of an influence Free Masonry has had in the development of America. Guess who’s main principles are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You know that’s not in your Bible. Not saying I desire to do away with our government and I DON’T WANT A THEOCRACY, but we’ve got to be honest about how America came into being.

    IMHO, from my own study of history, Christians had a major influence on turning the tide regarding slavery in America. Because the Christian Quakers could not square someone like George Washington (who was going into massive debt by the British) claiming the fight was about Liberty, while he and they held slaves. The Christian Quakers drew from their Biblical knowledge to support America being, but they were pacifist, so they refused to fight. Given their Biblical knowledge and the playing up of “Liberty”, they knew holding slaves didn’t square with any of that. They started freeing their slaves, asking George Washington to do the same (which he did in his will) and they kick started the effort to free slaves and it became a part of the Republican Party platform. Lincoln who really was not trying to end slavery was elected, ticked Southern states left the Union once Lincoln was elected and the rest is history.

    Christians didn’t “build” America from the bottom up, but have always invoked influence, major influence.

    healtheland – I’m seeing cracks in the Southern Baptists although they have not broken yet as a group to side with Romney. I’ve just noticed certain individuals moving towards him, but that’s how it started with Bob Jones University. First a lower level faculty member endorsed Romney and then their big man came out with his endorsement. And I’m just waiting for James Dobson to crack.

  7. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Bro IC,

    Would it be possible for you to please send me the websites/resources you used regarding the facts you brought up with the Quakers, Free Masonry, & other things you gathered from your personal studies? I’d like to be able to investigate more thoroughly for myself. Recently, one of my friends showed me some VIDEOs from “Focus on the Family”s recent development entitled”The Truth Project”:

    http://www.thetruthproject.org/

    Personally, I thought their information was highly insightful (especially when it came to the issue of HISTORICAL REVISIONISM & many seeking to erase the influence of Christians on America)…..but part of me can’t but realize that information can be biased based on who’s telling the story (which is why many Christians will swear the Presidents were all explicitly CHRISTIAN)….& that no one may have 100% OF the story correct. With some much inforamtion out there & a lack of what I see to be all of the ORIGINAL FACTS CLEARLY PRESENTED, it’s hard to make up your mind as to what really is TRUE…….& I always want to make certain I have all the facts for myself before making any kind of decision.

  8. Gxg--G2 Says:

    In your humble opinion, is it even possible to vote for a presidential cannidate who isn’t guilty of violating some sort of BIBLICAL VALUE we’re to stand for……or that one cannot enter into politics & expect to operate effectively without having to compromise at some point?

  9. djenk23 Says:

    I’ve always had trouble with voting…I don’t believe that you can legislate morality…thats the job of the family/church…at the same time, I cant knowingly vote for someone who believes in stuff that I dont believe in…When it was Kerry vs. Bush, I couldnt vote for Kerry because he was pro-abortion, gay marriage, etc…so I ended up voting for Bush even though it made me sick to my stomach to do so….I wouldnt vote for Mitt Romnet simply because I believe the Church of Mormon would actually be running the country if he became President…I wanted to believe that Obama would have been good for the country…but my eyes have been opened

  10. IndependentConservative Says:

    Gxg–G2 – Yes for a man to rise that high he’s obviously made many compromises and has many issues. But guys like Romney and Rudy are just blazingly awful.

    To learn about George Washington, his debts that influenced many of his decisions and the Quaker influence regarding slavery, check out the book His Excellency: George Washington. That does not address the Free Masonry aspects at all. But if you do any research into Free Masonry and America’s founding you’re going to learn that really quick. I mean even if you look at who dedicated America’s capitol building and how they performed that dedication. It’s no “secret”, just not mentioned in many books. I’m not going to spoil the surprise, once you look into what I’ve mentioned, you’ll see.

    djenk23 – Regarding Romney and the Mormon influence, did you see this post?

  11. IndependentConservative Says:

    I just read a commentary from when CA had their recall election and Christians KNEW Tom McClintock better expressed their views than Arnold Schwarzenegger, but had to decide if they wanted to vote for Arnold in the interest of keeping a Liberal Democrat (Bustamante) out of office. The words of that commentary are fitting.

    Check out the first commentary on this page.

    Read it all in full, but this quote says it ALL:


    At no time in Biblical history did God ever say “go half way.” Either God will grant the victory or He won’t, but when all is said and done, I’m not about to stand before God and say, “Well, God, I didn’t think David had a chance against Goliath, so I went over to the other side.”

    God really does have it under control. I believe we just really have to stand where He is, no matter how big the giants. I’m not saying God will grant us McClintock, I don’t know that. Jesus said it was going to get very dark, and it is. But when the lights go out and His Son Comes down, I’m going to be holding on to my Father’s hand.

    I will vote for Tom McClintock on election day, and I pray that he not drop out. Because win or lose, Tom McClintock is providing us with an opportunity to stand for what is right. And if the worst happened, if Bustamonte or Davis wins the election, God will not forsake us. We will remain in victory, having chosen what was right even in a dark world. Our victory is in Christ.

    Even if the BEST candidate does not look to have any chance at all, vote for the BEST candidate anyway.

    But hey, those in CA who compromised have received a real treat, The State Of California Now Officially Opposes Heterosexuality. Oh well, while it all goes downhill they can say they’ve got a few more coins in their pocket because they kept the Democrat out 🙄 .

    I’d rather be that McClintock voter, who while things are going downhill can say they stood for what would have been best and the sin spread by Arnold can’t be placed on their hands because they refused to endorse him.

    I’m not an Independent Conservative because I beleive in compromises. I’m an Independent Conservative because I REFUSE to compromise.

  12. KyleAndrews Says:

    IC,

    What do we do? Are you suggesting we go the James Dobson way and support a 3rd party candidate?

    Kyle

  13. healtheland Says:

    KyleAndrews: What we are to do is to realize that A) man is sinful and B) God is holy. We are not to accommodate A) sinful man in ANYTHING that we do but rather serve B) the holy God in ALL that we do. Are you living for America in this life, or for the kingdom of heaven in the next? It really is all about when you stand before God on judgment day what He says about YOU. Look at the world that Jesus Christ Himself, His apostles, and the early church existed in. It was the Roman Empire, filled to the core with Greco – Roman hedonism and paganism; every form of sexual immorality, violence, false religious practice, and class inequality that you can imagine. (Yes, the latter is important: the method of execution given to Jesus Christ was illegal for a Roman citizen … systemic social injustice is the mark of a sinful society … I think that it was Amos who said that one of the reasons why Israel was being judged was because people were being sold into debt slavery for a price of shoes, and Israel stopped practicing the jubilee year that God imposed to prevent generational poverty and the state and a few wealthy rich from owning most of the land).

    The early church had no delusions that they could somehow transform the Roman Empire into righteousness through politics and commerce, because most of the members of the early church weren’t even Roman citizens … they were mostly noncitizens and slaves. That persecution that Nero, Domitian, and the other Roman emperors inflicted on Christians: it was illegal to throw a Roman citizen to the lions, force them to become gladiators, crucify them, or burn them at the stake. Even the few Christians that had Roman citizenship and or wealth like Paul, Aquila and Priscilla, etc. had no delusions of influencing the Roman Empire, an imperial monarchy with some trappings of being a “republic” but was actually a fascist state, through worldly means.

    So why do we Christians today have those same delusions? Because that is what they are … delusions. America is NOT New Jerusalem, the shining city on the hill. New Jerusalem isn’t even going to come when Jesus Christ returns, but rather only after the millennium and the great white throne judgment. Christians in America have to study the early church’s relationship to the wicked world that they lived in, Babylon even where Satan’s seat dwells, and apply it to ourselves.

  14. IndependentConservative Says:

    What do we do? Are you suggesting we go the James Dobson way and support a 3rd party candidate?

    Well I AM NOT telling you to follow James Dobson. I am telling you to check ALL the candidates and vote for the best of ALL that are available REGARDLESS of that particular candidate’s estimated odds for winning.

    Dobson, he’s talking about wanting a new political party and that all might be a false front, he might end up supporting Romney, see James Dobson is Very Likely to Endorse Cult Member Mormon Mitt Romney for President, but Won’t Admit it Yet!

    I’m not saying start a new party, I’m not saying endorse ANY party. I’m saying seek the best candidate and vote for them. I want you to STOP viewing the world as being “Democrat or Republican” and realize you have a real full slate of candidates if you are open to looking at all candidates and endorsing the best option of all that will be on your ballot or even running as write-in candidates.

    If Dobson actually does start some new party, I’d even review whatever candidate he/they might put forward. But I can’t say Dobson supporting a candidate does anything for me.

    And notice how people like Dobson never even give men like Duncan Hunter (a guy I like) or Tom Tancredo the benefit of a single word. Dobson is all about talking about whoever is polling well. Which is why I have doubts about him and his claims to break from the Republicans. If he does break, I suspect it would be in a method that helps himself.

    I’m about seeking to have you seek and endorse the best no matter the potential outcome of the race. Just having you stand for your convictions no matter how hard things get.

    I’ve written in names, even wrote in “Jesus” when I didn’t like anybody in a race, I’ve voted for people who got maybe 1,000 votes. It does not matter to me. I put my endorsement behind who I find to be the best candidate. VERY rarely do I use that “Jesus” write in, I mean the choices for a race have to be terrible, last time I did that the person was running unopposed and I wanted them out of office. Over 98% of the time I vote for a person who desires the post 😀 . Sometimes I skip a spot on the ballot, but that’s only if I didn’t have time to research before the election whatever I skip, that is also rare. And last Presidential election I voted for Bush too. I reviewed them all and felt he was best then. If he ran again I would not vote for him to have a 3rd term, but when I think of “best”, guys like Romney are not even on my radar.

  15. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Excellent points, Brah.

    As Chuck Baldwin once said, “I constantly hear Christian conservatives say they must vote for “the lesser of two evils.” This mostly translates into a vote for a pseudo-conservative Republican who, once elected, implements the same basic policies that just about any Democratic candidate would have implemented.”

    However, rather than admit there is virtually no difference between a pseudo-conservative Republican and an openly liberal Democrat, Christian conservatives continue to argue the benefits of voting for “the lesser of two evils.”

    “Question: if these same Christian conservatives had the opportunity to vote for Nero or Caligula, for whom would they vote? Would they vote for Nero because he slaughtered fewer Christians than Caligula? Would they overlook the murder of the Apostle Paul because in the grand scheme of things, Nero is not regarded as bloodthirsty as Caligula?”

    Philosophically, the above scenario is not much different from the logic used by Christian conservatives today who choose to overlook the violent injustices to the Constitution, the continued destruction of unborn babies, and the utter contempt for less government that are routinely demonstrated by recent Republican presidents. Their only argument for the continued support of such people is, “They are the lesser of two evils.” Therefore, I suppose we would hear Christian conservatives say, “Vote for Nero; he is the lesser of two evils.”

  16. Gxg--G2 Says:

    (IC: “And last Presidential election I voted for Bush too. I reviewed them all and felt he was best then. If he ran again I would not vote for him to have a 3rd term, but when I think of “best”, guys like Romney are not even on my radar.”)

    May I inquire why you choose Bush at that election? Just curious, seeing that I didn’t vote for Him because of the issue with IRAQ.other things (& I ended up going with with the Constitution Party cannidate Michael Peruka, which seems to have it more together than anything else)

    By the way, what are your thoughts on Presidential Cannidate Mike Huckabee? I was discussing him earlier with a friend, & from what I could gather, he seemed like a pretty solid choice to me. But of course, I could be mistaken.

  17. Yvette Says:

    At this point all I know is who I will not vote for and the list is a follows:
    Obama
    Clinton
    Romney
    Gulliani
    Gore (he might throw his hat in the ring)

    That is if there is an election.

  18. IndependentConservative Says:

    Gxg–G2 – I’m not EVEN going to go back and get into the 2004 election. It really does not matter one bit now. All 2004 election notes are long gone. But hey, given I blog now, you’ll probably see my 2008 notes here the closer we get to the election.

    I’m not big on Huckabee. He talks good game, but I’m not seeing a honestly Conservative track record in him. He’s got lots of excuses for things he did, that line up with a regular Liberal.

    Of those Republicans, the only 2 I really like are Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. They tell you what they want to do and their record matches their word 100%.

    I’m still quiet on Fred Thompson, because I honestly am on the fence regarding him.

    Ron Paul, there’s stuff I REALLY like about him and stuff I REALLY don’t like. I guess if he were the candidate I’d have to think about him more. But the fact I’m mentioning him means I don’t flat out despise him. He’s just made some really bad alliances.

    Honestly, I figure if things go as they are polling now, a guy like Rudy will get the Republican nomination and I’ll be voting for a candidate other than the Republican or Democrat anyway. So I can’t say I spend too much time in research on them these days.

    And Yvette, Al Gore better not run, because I don’t feel like spending time on his nonsense as a candidate 😀 . I figure Gore is too afraid to take a loss again anyway and will just stay out. He just likes the limelight and he knows if he loses again that the lights go OUT for a while.

  19. AndyB Says:

    As for the Founding Fathers supposed “Unchristian” backgrounds, I submit to you an article from Stand to Reason: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5097

    As to the situation with the 2008 election.. bleh.. I don’t really like any of the current Republicrat front-runners, and I’m not even gonna consider the Democans. I’d like to vote for someone 3rd party who lines up more with my beliefs, but yet if it *would* come down to:

    1) Voting for a spineless or status-quo Republican heretic which would not make any waves. OR
    2) Voting 3rd party to make a statement only to see a die-hard liberal take power, repeal anti-abortion advancement, institute same-sex marriage, and push hate-crimes legislation (infringing upon free speach)

    I’m not totally sure which one would be the wiser decision and constitute being a better steward of what small opportunity we’re given to shape things. MacArthur had a decent article on the issue that I read recently, but the application of it in a political system like ours stil leaves a bit up in the air. That article is at: http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/2395

  20. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Excellent Articles, Brah (though I’d think it wise to continue doing research on the beliefs of the Founding Fathers, regarding the article you gave on them).

    After investigating that article by Macarther, I was HIGHLY convicted. Even with officials I may not like, it’s dangerous to not be careful in the ways I speak out against their actions.

    Though there were many things I found to be of interest, one thing that struck out to me was this:

    Titus 3:1-2

    Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. (vv. 1-2)

    “As we have the scriptural duty of not maligning anyone, not even those unbelievers who are most antagonistic toward biblical standards. Titus 3:2 begins with Paul’s command “to malign no one,” and refers to cursing, slandering, and treating with contempt. In fact the Greek term rendered “malign” is the one from which we derive the English word blasphemy. We can never use such speech with a righteous motive.

    “It is sad that many believers today speak scornfully of politicians and other public figures. When they do that, they actually manifest a basic disregard of their responsibility toward authority and hinder God’s redemptive plan. In another of Paul’s pastoral letters, he urges us to pray for everyone’s salvation, even for that of those who occupy official positions of authority (1 Timothy 2:1-4).”

    1 Timothy 2

    Instructions on Worship
    1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

    Going back to Macarthers commentary on Titus 3, “Paul goes on in verse 2 to mention two more Christian duties. First, he reminds us that we must be friendly and peaceful toward the lost, not belligerent and quarrelsome. In the ungodly, postmodern world we live in, it’s easy to condemn those who contribute to the culture’s demise and write them off as corrupt sinners who will never change. If God’s love for the world was so broad and intense that His Son died for a multitude of sinners (John 3:16), how can we who have received that redeeming grace be harsh and unloving toward those who have not yet received it? Until God is pleased to save an individual, he or she is going to behave like an unbeliever, and it is wrong for us, meanwhile, to treat them contemptuously for acting according to their nature.”

    “Secondly, Paul reminds us that we must be “gentle,” a word in the Greek that means being fair, moderate, and forbearing toward others. Some have translated this term “sweet reasonableness,” a definition denoting an attitude that does not hold grudges but gives others the benefit of the doubt.”

    Of course the list of Scriptures one could bring up on the subject could go on, but I thought that Macarther had some very SOLID POINTS. I’ve had to check my own attitude when it comes to politicians & my being distainful of them for acting according to the ways of the World……& I’ve also had to check myself when it seems I’m spending more time speaking against them (& enjoying it too) than actually sincerly praying for them. More often than not, I think many Christians believe that our words have more power in the lives of politicians that our prayers before the Father, as I Timothy 2 seems to indicate……& I’d be a fool to belive God wouldn’t hold me to account for that.

    On a different note, the situation with politics reminds me of how often Christians can be a bit foolish. How often will many speak out against a politician & end up acting with a “matyr” mentality, as if they’re the ones everyone should be feeling sorry for because politicians are making policies/have beliefs…..when the reality is that MANY CHRISTIANS HAVE GOTTEN THEMSELVES into the mess we see by not actively being involved in the political process (i.e. not voting when the day comes, or petitioning/boycotting when they see a law that bothers them)……..or by getting involved but using wisdom/prayer in the men they choose to elect into office and refusing to pay attention to the issues taking place, & then BLAMING THE POLITICANS FOR THE LAWS MADE AS IF THEY MADE THEM WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.

    I always have to chuckle when I see someone who has just posted a mindless, hateless diatribe against a politician and been called on it claim “bless are you when you are persecuted for my sake.” Why chuckle? Well, if one actually reads the bible, that passage follows “blessed are the meek” and “blessed are the gentle”. It is the meek and gentle who can claim to be persecuted for righteousness, not the loud and arrogant who never admit how they’ve been liable.

    I recognize that 90%+ of the pain my life, at least at age 40+, is of my own doing and the choices I’ve made most of my life. Though I am willing to suffer for Christ, very little of my suffering we recieve from government is often for Him – & to claim differently removes any responsibility I have in it.

    1 Peter 2:10-20

    10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

    11Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. 12Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
    Submission to Rulers and Masters

    13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

    16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

    17Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

    18Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

  21. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Regarding the issue of making a third party, I’m currently leaning in favor of that one right now.

    Mike Hucakabee still has my favor a bit, as I’ve yet to see anything that indicates a double-standard on his part regarding conservative standards (unless someone could please provide me with evidence since I wouldn’t really know where to look.)

    Also, regarding Dobson, I’ve always admired his work & can respect his decision to leave a party that would elect someone who’s pro-choice. That’s something I couldn’t see with most others…& even though Rommey’s a Mormon, I can’t help but admit I feel a bit swayed since the other options don’t seem very hopeful.

    Then again, it should be worthwile investigating the options Bro IC placed out like Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo & Fred Thompson. Even if they may not get elected, if they have the greatest Biblical stance, I’d go with them.

    http://www.christianpost.com/pages/search_result.htm

  22. Gxg--G2 Says:

    The Link with the press on the issues was supposed to be this one:

    http://www.christianpost.com/pages/search_result.htm

  23. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Apparently the link’s jacked up, but ln order to get there, simply type “Dobson” in the “search” box & it should take you there.

    PEACE….

  24. Gxg--G2 Says:

    IC,

    Check out this article, Bro. I was really tripped out by some of the things in it, as it seems that the reason people were going for Rommey is because it has boiled down for many into an issue of electing someone who has the same values rather than theological beliefs.

    Also, here’s something of interest:

    “Cizik, however, disagrees with his fellow evangelicals, saying he did not think it was possible for the “same individuals” who for “years and years” said religious beliefs and convictions matter to all of a sudden to say they don’t matter because of a candidate like Mitt Romney.”

    “You can’t simply say it doesn’t matter or the only thing that matters is his stand on the issue,” he added. “Well, it is a little more complicated than that.”

    “As an explanation, LivePrayer.com’s Keller claims that a significant number of influential Christian leaders – such as Dr. James Dobson and megachurch pastor John Hagee – refuse to denounce Romney because of their personal ties to Mormonism.”

    “The online evangelist said Dobson’s Focus on the Family, for example, is part of the World Congress of Families – an organization which the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the official name of the Mormon church, is a major funder of. Keller also claims Dobson and other leaders remain silent on Romney because they don’t want to upset the large number of Mormons who buy their books.”

    “Focus on the Family was contacted in regards to Keller’s claim but declined to respond as Dobson’s personal opinions and actions are expressed or done as a private citizen and not on behalf of Focus on the Family or its registered trademarks.”

    http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071016/29718_Why_Some_Evangelicals_Won%27t_Vote_for_Romney.htm

    Thoughts, Brah?

  25. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Figured it’d be benefit to share this resource with everyone, seeing that it covers a MYRIAD of issues with Rommey other than the fact that he’s a member of a CULT, as IC pointed out:

    http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/2609/Ingrid_Schlueter

    Needless to say, I was shocked to see the amount of double-standards/issues with Rommey that have yet to be displayed in the general public among Christians. Why this is the case dumbfound me….

  26. IndependentConservative Says:

    You seem surprised. I mean about the money linkage.

  27. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Yes

    (Considering the fact that it seemed like the only issue with Rommey was that he supported MORMOM/CULTIC beliefs), I am….

  28. IndependentConservative Says:

    You should check these out:
    Bogus Mormon Lost Book of Abraham Exposed

    The Bible Versus The Book of Mormon, No Contest!

    DNA Versus The Book of Mormon. A Must See Video!

    Regarding the money, you’re just hitting the tip of an iceberg brother.

  29. Gxg--G2 Says:

    As much as I hate to admit it, “it’s the money…..always about the money…….”, & the love of it/obsessing over it as if it’s the source of our purpose/effectiveness when the reality is that God’s the one who does so,….that’s the main thing keeping us from being satisfied with maming godly decisions & instead choosing to have a pragmatic approach. Shall we be surprised when we end into mess??

    Ecclesiastes 5:10

    Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.

    1 Timothy 6:6-10, 17-19

    Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain[c] we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

  30. IndependentConservative Says:

    If you’re surprised by what you learned, this will really get you going and EVERYONE should check this out:


    I knew about the Mormon’s giving TBN all that money. I knew that Mormons were trying to co – opt famous Christians against their will like Kirk Franklin and C.S. Lewis. I knew that they had bought off the formerly legitimate Christian Feed the Children charity (you know get The Book of Mormon free with your donations). And I KNEW that Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign had the overt goal of promoting Mormonism. But I didn’t know that all of this was out of DESPERATION!

    More details are there.

  31. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Ditto on the thoughts, Brah…..

    Honestly, though, can’t say I was surprised. It’s essentially the same thing we’ve already seen in varying degrees elsewhere…..As someone in the article said at one point, “mormons want to infiltrate regular Christian religions so they can bring those Christians into Mormonism under the [impression] that they’re Christian, too.”..& this is something we’ve all seen COUNTLESS TIMES already.

    The story that immediately comes to mind is this one:

    -Acts 16:16-21-

    16Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

    19When the owners of the slave girl realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities. 20They brought them before the magistrates and said, “These men are Jews, and are throwing our city into an uproar 21by advocating customs unlawful for us Romans to accept or practice.”

    she was a paid fortune teller interpreting signs and telling people their future so those employing her would get paid. No doubt that there were those who followed the Lord sincerly in that day and knew how to “know a devil when ya see one.” If she had tried to profit her masters by trying to reach out to the Christian part of the community, she most likely would’ve been turned down by those who knew better. However, as is still the case today, there were those who were still “babes in Christ” and who were still investigating the entire thing of what it meant to follow Christ.

    Also, as is still the case today, a person who claims to speak for somebody even when they may say things contrary to the character of that individual may give the impression to many who either don’t know better or who don’t research that what a false speaker said is true.

    So imagine what a new-born Christian may be thinking about a woman following Paul and Silas and confirming what they believe in. They probably would be thinking things like, “Hey, she telling the truth…so mabye she has other worthwile things to say…If she told the future on one aspect, mabye all the other sthings she speaks can’t be that bad…mabye she can even tell my story!!”

    As G.Craig stated in his video series”The Truth Behind Hip Hop: Exodus into Egypt” (many compliments and thanks to such a watchful and mighy man of the Word as he is and to his powerful dvd/teachingd!),Paul had to rebuke her because she was using him as an “enabler” to get into the church much like many secular artist have to get Christian men and women of influence onto their cd’s or works in order to get validation for their stuff/make it more profitable to their employers.

    Once they’re able to get credidation in the eyes of believers, it opens the door for them to enter the church, promote their agenda in place of God’s and sets the stage for the eventual Coup d’état” to take place

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

    The scenarion that has seems to be happening was faced by Jesus himself!!!

    Luke 4:31-37 -Jesus Drives Out an Evil Spirit-

    31Then he went down to Capernaum, a town in Galilee, and on the Sabbath began to teach the people. 32They were amazed at his teaching, because his message had authority.
    33In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil[a]spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, 34?Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”

    35?Be quiet!” Jesus said sternly. “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.

    36All the people were amazed and said to each other, “What is this teaching? With authority and power he gives orders to evil spirits and they come out!” 37And the news about him spread throughout the surrounding area.

    Mark 3:7-12 -Crowds Follow Jesus-

    7Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the lake, and a large crowd from Galilee followed. 8When they heard all he was doing, many people came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon. 9Because of the crowd he told his disciples to have a small boat ready for him, to keep the people from crowding him. 10For he had healed many, so that those with diseases were pushing forward to touch him. 11Whenever the evil[a] spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” 12But he gave them strict orders not to tell who he was.”

    According to the commentary in my Bible , “Apart from various reasons such as proving His power over the kingdom of darkness and displaying His authortity in light of the demon’s tactics of calling out Jesus’s name since, it was believed in that period that invoking the name of someone often symbolize control/influence over that individual, & THEREFORE it was quite neccessary for Jesus to shut these demons up because to allow them to speak/gove testimony would be a mockery to the character of God!

    More later….but everyone, PLEASE TAKE NOTE. THERE’S AN AGENDA TAKING PLACE……

  32. IndependentConservative Says:

    Gxg–G2 – If you have more, let it be related to the issue of what Mormons are up to and any scripture you care to provide in that regard. Not every varied thing going on that comes to your mind.

    You already know how some of us feel about the other stuff you’re going into.

    Let’s keep this on the topic of the Mormons and the Golden Elephant cult many have turned the GOP into within their own hearts.

  33. Gxg--G2 Says:

    My Bad, Brah. Wasn’t even planning on going into anything regarding G.Craig Lewis, though the point with enablers/ACTS 16 is something I think ties into THE ISSUE with what’s happening in Mormonism. I’f venture further to say that it may be inaccurate to say that the issue with Mormons infiltrating Christianity is something true of ALL MORMONS, as there are many Mormons who know Christianinty & Mormonism are not the same & make no effort in trying to blend the two together.

  34. Gxg--G2 Says:

    By “GOP” or “GOLDEN ELEPHANT”, you’re meaning the Republican Party, correct?

  35. IndependentConservative Says:

    Yes.

    Since some put them above the cause of Christ, for them I call it the Cult of the Golden Elephant. That is what they’ve turned it into. Not that every person who claims that party is a cultist, but some are obviously making the GOP first in their lives. GOP does not stand for God’s Own Party.

  36. IndependentConservative Says:

    I could say what the Democrat loyalists are worshiping, but if you know what I might call it given my title for the GOP 😆 😳 😀 .

  37. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Agreed, Brah…….

    There’s more loyalty nowadays to our political parties than there is to Christ…..

    And of course, that’s dangerous seeing that parties are LIABLE to change.

    As Randy Alcorn once wisely said, “God doesn’t care about conservative and liberal, he cares about what is true and right and just and compassionate and biblical. (He does therefore care about political party beliefs, platforms, moral positions and policies. Before standing behind any party we’d better be sure these harmonize with his Word. That’s part of being a Christian first.”

    http://www.epm.org/articles/conservx.html

    If I’m more loyal to my party than God’s Word first & begin to believe that the PARTY ITSELF represents what the Heart of God is, then I bind myself to follow that party wherever it goes…..even if it’s a DANGEROUS PATH.

    Moreover, I may set myself up for the danger of RATIONALIZING away the dangers by believing that any good the party has done may be a sign that the party can be redeemed & therefore I shouldn’t abandon ship. That’s why most people have stayed with the Republican party when many should’ve left a LONG TIME AGO…..& the same goes for other labels as well, like “Liberal” for example.

    They have done much for our nation in the past (paticuraly in the Civil Rights Movement), but many will look over any of the wrongs done by the party becayse of that…..willingly going up to slaughter.

  38. IndependentConservative Says:

    I stand with no political party and encourage people to leave them 🙂 .

  39. Gxg--G2 Says:

    Literally “Independent”….love your style, Brah (lol).

  40. KyleAndrews Says:

    IC, GXG,

    Again I ask what shall we do? I personally shredded my Republican Voter Registration card a while back. I too am a Christian Conservative not a Bootlicking Republican Like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh of whom both are shameful examples of Corporate Republicans. However, should we vote our conscience and vote for a true conservative knowing full well that they will lose? I can’t lie. When November of 08 comes around I will have to do a great deal of contemplation. Right now it looks like it is going to be a Clinton/Obama ticket VS a Giuliani/Romney ticket. One gives you the communist manifesto the other gives you more liberal Republican Neocons. What are we to do.

    Kyle

  41. IndependentConservative Says:

    KyleAndrews – We’ve already noted what we are doing. I don’t see a Clinton/Obama ticket VS a Giuliani/Romney ticket. I see a ticket with many more options. Because I don’t base my view of the field on popular opinion. Opinions that in many cases are not rooted in godliness. Entertainment Tonight is the #1 news show in America. Need I say more?

    With either ticket you named you know both will push things towards MORE ungodliness. My name won’t be a co-signer to either of their deeds. Their only real difference is that one might let you keep a little more of your own money than the other. That’s not something I see as “good” when Rudy Wants You and Me to Foot the Bill for People to Murder Their Babies. And he’s a Catholic who orthodox Catholics don’t even respect as a good one of their own. Many of his own “priests” would not even serve him if he entered their buildings. And I don’t like the influence Rome already has in this nation and only desires to increase via border invasion! That is an invasion that Rudy is all for helping. See: Why Rudolph W. Giuliani Should Never Become President of the United States. He’s a Friend of Illegal Aliens.

    Why do you think Pawn Sean Hannity (Catholic) while denying it was saying more supportive words for Arnold Schwarzenegger (Catholic) than Tom McClintock during the CA recall election involving Gray Davis?

    Now Team Bush backs Romney, Pawn Sean Hannity usually backs them and he’s got Rudy (Catholic).

    Brother, I’m not a fan of suffering, but I’m not afraid of it either. I won’t co-sign, I’ll vote for someone with no chance before them. Both Rudy and Mitt not only have issues theologically that would advance cults, they are both flip-floppers on policy, so you can’t even trust them if you removed all theological considerations.

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