Rekjalhew

September 26, 2007

The Truth About Baptism

by @ 12:46 pm. Filed under The Truth Shall Set you Free!

Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum of Ariel Ministries has put together a sound teaching on the Christian ordinance of Baptism. Even saints who have been in the faith for a long time would do well to listen to this teaching of about 80 minutes.

You can check it out via this link that plays the teaching via MP3 audio.

If you prefer a Podcast version use this link.

This is part of Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s “Come and See” series of teachings and is titled “The Ordinance of Baptism”.

The reason all saints need to hear this is because Fruchtenbaum offers in his Messianic Jewish (Jew who knows Jesus Christ is Lord and the risen Savior) perspective and insight regarding Baptism that brings clarity to the division this has caused within the church. Among other things the following are addressed:

Please open your Bibles and check it out in full and please reserve comment until you’ve heard the entire teaching.



5 Responses to “The Truth About Baptism”

  1. alady1969 Says:

    IC…
    This was a big one for me, trying to get understanding. I really enjoyed this teachings. It was once suggested to me to get re-baptisted. Now although I got baptisted at 21. The reckless lifestyle I once lived and my lack of knowledge. I was considering it and questioned was that really necessary (re-baptism) and were could I find that being done in scripture. I even heard a teaching that if you were baptisted in the trinity and not in the name, your were not really baptisted.

    So thanks again. Wish I could down load this. It’s one for the libary.

  2. IndependentConservative Says:

    If you want to download the audio, just select the Podcast link above, then on each audio link do a RIGHT CLICK (alternate mouse button, assuming you use Windows) and “save link as”, to save each of the audio links to your hard drive.

  3. alady1969 Says:

    Thanks, I’ll give it a try.

  4. key2truth Says:

    IC, I quite agree with some of the teaching of Dr.Fruchtenbaum but not all.
    I quite agree that baptism is not salvific in itself and should be done after professing faith in Christ Jesus. I also agree that it’s not for unbelievers or infants.
    I do however agree that it’s necessary after receiving Christ to be baptized.
    Christ commanded,”…make disciples of all nations, baptizing them….”(Matt.28v19).
    I base my disagreement further on:
    1.Jesus Christ was baptized(Matt.3v13-17). If He felt it was not necessary He would have restrained John from doing so.
    2.After Cornelius received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit he was also baptized by Apostle Peter(Acts 10v47-47).
    3.Also,Paul then known as Saul was baptized by Ananias after he was saved (Acts 9v18)
    4.Paul baptized the new believers in Ephesus (Acts 19v3-7).
    5. The Ethiopian eunuch was also baptized by Philip after he received Christ( Acts 8v36).
    I can go on and on but let me just state clearly that even Paul in his letter to the Romans 6v3 says,”Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized were baptized into His death?”. Baptism therefore initiates us into a newness of life in Christ (Rom.6v4-5.
    The teacher’s citation of Paul’s statement in 1corr.1v14-17 was totally out of context.
    In 1corr.1v10-17 Paul was talking about the division in the Church in Corinth pertaining to certain arguments that arose due to differences of his teaching to that of Apollos and Peter. If you look at Acts 19v3-7 you will see clearly that Paul baptized all the 12 new believers at Ephesus. So Paul’s statement did not in any way underplay the significance of baptism but that statement in 1cor.1v14-17 is directed to the Corinthians.
    Again I disagree with the Dr’s explanation of Christ’s word in Jn.3v5.Christ’s word there is clear,”..no one can enter the kingdom of God UNLESS he is born of WATER and the SPIRIT”.
    You must recognize that even Peter in 2Peter3v16 acknowledges that some of Paul’s teachings are hard to understand!

  5. IndependentConservative Says:

    key2truth – First I want to thank you for taking the time to review the teaching.

    If you don’t feel that water baptism is salvific, than when you say it is “necessary” are you saying it’s “necessary” as in the sense Christians should give to the poor or it’s “necessary” in the sense that someone not water baptized is not part of the elect who have been baptized into Christ’s death? You already say after point #5 you’ve made above, that you feel water baptism is the baptism that buries one in Christ. This makes your statements conflict. If water baptism is “necessary” AND the point at which one is “buried with Christ” it by definition would have to be a salvific action. I feel all believers SHOULD be water baptized, however I don’t find it as something salvific and I feel believers are baptized with Christ via the Holy Spirit when they believe in Him.

    In response to your 5 points above:

    1) Yes Jesus was water baptized and I feel all believers should be.

    2) Yes, but they were BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE FIRST. Thus proving they were ALREADY buried with Christ in the baptism JOHN SAID JESUS WOULD PERFORM ON ALL BELIEVERS, Matthew 3:11. They were already saved, already buried with Christ. For them, the water baptism was only a symbolic work of obedience, not what buried them with Christ.

    3) Yes Saul/Paul was water baptized and I feel all believers should be.

    4) Yes the new believers in Ephesus were water baptized and I feel all believers should be.

    5) Yes the Ethiopian eunuch was water baptized and I feel all believers should be.

    Romans 6, considering the whole chapter in full rather than a few select verses, to see the full context. Being buried with Christ and dead to sin occurs inside of a person by grace through faith. It’s not from water, so being buried with Christ in the sense spoken of is spiritual, via the Holy Spirit, not water. The water baptism is simply an outward symbolic work of someone displaying they believe and openly proclaim their faith.

    I think Dr. Fruchtenbaum’s explanation of 1 Corinthians 1:14-17 is on point. Yes those who proclaimed belief in Jesus were baptized and some by Paul, but this does not mean the water is what buries one with Christ.

    Ephesians 4:5, now when we get down to it, either there is one baptism or there are 2. If there is one, it is the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire. The baptism John the Baptist said Jesus would bring. If there are 2, than Ephesians 4:5 is invalid and there is water and fire baptism, that’s two, not one. The water is symbolic in nature, not what buries us in Christ.

    John 3, please read the full conversation with Nicodemus, to get the proper context of verse 5. The water Christ spoke of there was the water of birth from the womb. The entire context of their whole conversation was about being born twice, once from the womb and a 2nd time of the Spirit. No where in that conversation is water baptism mentioned.

    Later in John 3, we see Jesus had His disciples performing water baptisms. However, plenty were proclaimed to be forgiven of their sins never having be baptized. Not only was their the thief on the cross who was converted and never went into water, but consider this. Luke 7:37-50, she was proclaimed to have her sins forgiven and she had not been baptized.

    Yes Peter noted some of Paul’s writings include some things that are hard to understand and that is even why some who are following delusion claim 1 Corinthians 15:29 teaches that there should be proxy baptisms for people who are physically dead in their graves.

    We agree Christians should be water baptized, but what occurs in it and how we define “necessary” is where we have some disagreement. I’m sure you given your stance have been water baptized as I have also been water baptized. So we have been and we feel all who believe in Jesus should be water baptized. We have a disagreement here between brothers, both who have been water baptized, about some details regarding water baptism. So I love you as my brother in Christ, despite any disagreement we might have as to when we both were buried with Him 🙂 .

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