You already know of Benny Hinn’s efforts to suppress the truth. Well it does not matter. The truth is still out there. In places where Hinn’s legal games won’t work.
If you never saw the CBC documentary about Hinn, check it out on this CBC web page. They have the entire video hosted their on their site. It’s not property of Benny Hinn, but property of the CBC. Benny Hinn has no legal standing to ever have that removed from their site, so it should always be available to you, to show others as long as the CBC deems it fit for having on their web site.
This other web site has a laundry list of stuff exposing Benny Hinn. I doubt they would be willing to cave as quickly as a site like YouTube.
Also, for anyone who feels the filling of the Holy Spirit comes via speaking in tongues and feels that speaking in tongues is for today, I recommend you read this write-up. I’ve sit through SO MANY church services where people claimed to be speaking in tongues and had me do it with them, that I know they are all fake by the fact I’ve sat in so many of them. All related rules prescribed by the apostle Paul via inspiration from God in 1 Corinthians 14 are almost always broken and even if they attempt to follow the rules, you can tell the babbling by the person supposedly speaking in tongues is not an actual language and the utterances don’t come close to the made up interpretation. I mean you’ll hear the same utterance multiple times from the supposed tongue talker, but never hear the supposed interpretation repeat phrases at the points you would expect it to occur. Honestly, I figured out it was bogus by sitting in enough of it to realize it was simply fake and folks allowing their mouths to do whatever. Which is something I feel is fairly dangerous, when claiming it is the work of God. I know many who are doing it claim it’s the Holy Spirit and are just allowing their tongue to do whatever, but don’t honestly realize it’s all simply them babbling. That write-up also includes a good example of how the apostles could seek that someone be healed and it happen even when the injured/sick person had no faith, but today faith fake healers like Benny Hinn say it all depends on your faith.
There’s a big game being played in the name of the Holy Spirit. Some do it to relieve their own tension and stress, without knowing it’s just them. Some do it to intentionally fleece others. It’s all just wrong though and hinders the efforts of the church to spread the message of Jesus Christ, because it makes people who claim Jesus look like mad men. Tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jew as noted by the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 28:11-14. It served its purpose in its time and it is time for us to operate in the love the apostle Paul described in 1 Corinthians 13. In Paul’s time of being surrounded by unbelieving Jews who would believe such a sign, tongues was done in a language that the unbeliever would understand, while the speaker had never trained in that language. Today converts of all stripes, even Jewish converts are convinced by the truth of the Gospel, not tongues, because in most countries we reside in we all speak and understand the same language fluently. Today, there are Christians who speak every language under the sun.
I say all this not to offend, but in love. In the hope through Jesus Christ that the church operate in spirit and in truth. With that, we must know what is now of the spirit and what is not. Continue to study The Word, live as the Lord commands and you will grow in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit will become full within you, which is my prayer for you who know the Lord. Filling does not come via babbling, but simply continued study and living as the Lord commands.
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April 30th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
While many of the things that you point out in regards to individuals “pimping” and pulling the wool over the eyes of many is true, I have to ask what on earth are you doing to promote the Kingdom of GOD? Anyone can sit behind a computer and shoot venom about a man or woman, how difficult is it to critisize the doctrine of Pentacostals when your understanding is clearly limited? Who’s life is being impacted by this outlandish propoganda? The very thing that the people behind this website critisize others for (taking the scripture out of context)is what they often do as well. I just wonder what qualified these people to not openly rebuke those who openly sin as the bible says but to openly humiliate and make personal attacks against them. There are ministries who address what the individual or the offending “ministry” does without attacking a bunch of individuals they have never met. And I don’t even have to ask who prays before blogging these articles and comments. That’s why GOD will ordain people because you have gone way beyond being decency and order. There are no blogs in the bible by Paul or by any of the prophets or apostles who’s charge was to point out all of the flaws and errors of those who were supposed to be believers. Don’t critisize others for not focusing enough on the Cross and the Blood of Jesus and you don’t. Read Phillipians 1:14-18. Yeah there is foolishness going on just as the Bible told us there would be, but each of us is given the ministry of reconciliation. If all of these men and women have fallen acknowledge their public sin and pray for them. Oh and by the way, as The Bible instructs us do ALL things in the name of JESUS! The only name given among men where by we must be saved, the name that is above all names, the ONLY name that the Apostle’s ever baptized in, the name they were commaned by JESUS to baptize in, the Triune name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. In Jesus name, the same Jesus through the Holy Ghost is still casting out demons,still healing the sick and afflicted and still performing miracles on the earth and still filling people with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
Always in love,
Mr. Davis
April 30th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Try 2 Peter 2, maybe I should just call them brute beasts like Peter!
These are false teachers that claim the name of the Lord. As usual, someone always comes to try and offer some cover for them or to lighten the blow.
Benny Hinn is an agent of none other than Satan himself and embarrasses the church to the point that even the heathen laughs. It’s because of closed mouth evangelists like you that I’ve got to do the job!
April 30th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
And by the way, Jesus himself said 3.
Matthew 28:19-20 (New King James Version)
No wonder you defend Benny, you’re a Oneness endorsing pimp defender and probably adore TD Jakes.
May 1st, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Good morning, Independent Conservative. I write this to you not as a challenge but more out of seeking truth. Please don’t take this as a challenge; but rather as a sister in Christ who is seeking clarity in a confused world.
These were the words that you wrote and I have placed some comments in bold red within your comments. I have also listed some questions below your comments. To the best of your ability, please help me with these questions in a spirit of a brother trying to help a sister understand. I just want to know the truth. Thanks.
THE BEGINNING OF IC’s COMMENTS:
What about Matthew 9:29
What about Acts 19:4-6 – they clearly were already believers. Also, what you are hearing in Churches are not the gifts of tongues, but more praying in the spirit, which are not the same thing.
END OF IC’s COMMENTS
Question 1: Is there a scripture that tells us that tongues are not for today?
Question 2: What if there is a difference between “speaking in tongues” and the prayer language that comes with being filled with the Holy Spirit? After all, the gift of tongues is not given because you are filled, but it is a gift that is manifested as the Holy Spirit so chooses (1 Corinthians 12:4-11)
Question 3: What if there really is a prayer language that comes with being baptized in the Holy Spirit, and it is to be spoken only unto God, but the majority in the Church simply uses it out of order?
Question 4: Suppose there are some who follow the command to keep silent in the Church and speak only unto God? Would you still condemn it? When you compare everything else that “Christians” do that are against God’s Word, why would this be any different? You don’t see it being done the right way because doing it the right way would not be seen by others. Paul, and more importantly God, knew that there would be those who would use this manifestation as a way to present themselves as “spiritual” and thus wrote 1 Corinthians 14.
I have been taught that the tongues spoken as a result of the filling of the Holy Spirit is an intimate thing between me and God. Whenever you hear someone being intimate, it is no longer intimacy. I don’t know where the Holy Spirit stands when people are out of order (I think the devil might come in at that point and use them to speak curses in the Church), but I don’t believe that the language received is fake when done the way God intended – but rather the people using it out of order are fake. I also believe that whenever someone invites you to just speak in tongues, that’s fake because then they are trying to give you a language that only the Holy Spirit can give. My experience has been that you cannot even repeat what you hear in your head so as to keep you from faking it when you have a heart to be real with God. I don’t have all the answers, but I don’t believe in turning a deaf ear when someone is saying something. I’m listening to you and praying for clarity. As you may have read in Melvin’s blogs, my motto is “When you talked to God about it, what did His Spirit tell you?” So please help me and maybe we can both come up with the real truth. I’d just hate to see a blessing from the Lord totally discarded because of what a bunch of disobedient people are doing. It would be like discarding music altogether because of the many who rebelliously mix with the world in the “Christian” music industry.
Thanks for listening.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:52 pm
First I thank you for the questions. I know this matter has caused much debate within the church. Debate that has often been held behind closed doors and I think we all could benefit from talking about it openly. Since Jesus and the apostles words are open for the world to see, I try to speak in the open about even the touchy subjects.
I’ve met Apostolics who claim someone is not saved if they have spoken in tongues as evidence of filling with the Holy Spirit. They’ve told me this to my face. Given they were people who know my history with the Pentecostal Holiness denomination, when I was a member of one of those churches, they figured my salvation was assured because I could allow utterances from my tongue. When I started to differ with the view of how much is it needed today, I was told “don’t throw away your gift”. So I know how touchy and personal a subject this is, but I hope sharing more of what I’ve found in scripture and feel the Lord is telling me helps someone else.
This is going to be a long one, but these are not trivial questions.
I asserted that someone with no faith has been healed by a Christian with faith and that claims of the sick person having to have faith are made up by charlatans like Benny Hinn. This requires having to reconcile scripture where no sign of faith on the part of the sick person was shown, like in Acts 3:1-10 where the man wanted money, but was happy to find he was healed, versus scripture like Matthew 9:29 where Jesus said a man’s eyes would be healed according to the measure of his faith. Which is it? I say the burden of faith falls primarily on the person praying for the sick individual. I feel the Lord has worked enough miracles for those with the courage to allow themselves to be prayed for to believe. I don’t feel any failed attempt at a faith healing is the fault of the sick person, not a single one. Because all that Jesus prayed for were healed, every one, without a single documented failure. When Jesus removed demons from a man in Luke 8, the demons knew who Jesus was. And they knew it was time to go. The man with the demons didn’t have to desire a thing, but the demons knew what Jesus wanted to see occur, packed their bags and simply asked Jesus to point them in another direction. I feel sickness is the same. Which is why even a man who wanted money can be healed by a believer. In the Bible, with cases of mental illness the use of the word “demons” is used interchangeably.
There are documented failures regarding attempts to pray for healing by the apostles and Jesus himself said their failure was not the fault of the sick person. It was their own fault, because they were not built up enough in the spirit. See: Matthew 17:14-21. Notice Jesus said nothing would be impossible for them, the burden for faith is not on the sick, but those who pray for their healing. The sick simply allowing you to pray is faith enough on their part and we see examples where even without them doing that they were healed. In Matthew 8:5-13, the sick servant of the centurion did not need to have faith. The centurion knew that Jesus simply saying the word would be enough. Jesus allowed the healing because the centurion believed and that centurion understood the power of Jesus better than many. Nobody has to go slapping hands and oil, but a prayer in faith is sufficient. Somebody does have to have faith to see the healing come, the person doing the praying is that person who must have the faith. Jesus said at times who he was praying for needed faith, he’s God, somebody has to show faith in him for him to work on our behalf, because he desires our faith in him. If I have faith enough in Him, I can pray for someone who is sick and they be healed without that sick person showing faith for healing themselves or them even knowing I prayed at that particular moment. Never was there a recorded failed healing attempt in the Bible because of the sick person’s unbelief when prayed for by a believer full of the spirit. No sick person came to Jesus for healing and he tell them they can’t be healed because of a lack of faith, their coming was faith enough. And never were their relapses in condition after the healing.
What faith does a dead body have? But Jesus raised a man from the dead. In that case, everybody figured Lazarus being dead was undoable. But Jesus told Lazarus to rise up and he got up. Yes at times Jesus told people to have faith and at times he said they would be healed by the measure of their faith, but God does what he wants, even with a dead body. It’s good for a sick person to have faith they can be healed, but I say if they know they are being prayed for and allow it, that’s faith enough on their part. Any failed healing is the fault of the person who did the praying. Which takes us back to Matthew 17:14-21.
I feel the real issue with trying to pray for healing is that we don’t want to admit how weak we really are. Because we do a lot of praying and nothing happens. The miracle of healing could be used as a sign to the unbeliever and skeptics like James Randi can wave it in our faces that no Christian has met his challenge. But plenty are coming who will do a lot of healing, THE ANTICHRIST, false prophets and anti-christs. They will use it to win people over. This is why doctrine is important. The Anti-Christ will be healing while full of false doctrine.
With Jesus and when the apostles were full of the spirit, all that came to them were healed, without a single miss.
Now lets say I’m wrong in saying that someone with no faith can be healed. Let’s say I misread Acts 3:1-10 and that man had some faith and let’s even say Lazarus dead body had faith, than the fact all who came to be healed were healed proves that is enough faith. To simply allow the prayer.
It’s true Paul in Acts 14:8-10 waited till he saw the man had faith before asking him to stand. So OK, I’m willing to go with the assertion that the sick person must have faith and I say all they need is to allow the prayer and that is faith enough on their part. The real hard work in being full of the spirit enough for the healing to happen falls on the shoulders of the person doing the praying. So I maintain all failed healing where the person accepted prayer are the fault of the person who prayed. We all probably fall in that category. We are weak and it’s sad. Either that or God for his own reasons will not allow it. Paul had enough faith in 2 Corinthians 12, but was not healed because it was God’s will that he not be healed and he learned something new about grace. Personally, I think we are a weak lot and if we were strong I think I could pray for a sick neighbor and he’d walk outside wondering how he got healed and I’d proceed to tell them. If Jesus could raise a dead body, I believe it could be done (both praying for the neighbor and raising the dead) if we had enough faith. I believe the word “nothing” would be impossible. We are weak.
Notice what Paul could do and others could not in Acts 19:11-20. Had nothing to do with the faith of those being prayed for.
Do I believe there are some cases of people being healed via prayer, yes I do. Myself, friends and family are witnesses to it, but it’s seldom seen.
Now for my disclaimer on healing: Always take a doctors advice and never stray from it until a doctor confirms you are healed. Even if you are prayed for at 9:30PM and feel better, but are supposed to take medication at 10:00PM take the medication and if you are honestly healed the doctor will still be able to confirm it. People in the Bible sought healing via prayer when doctors efforts failed, so don’t forsake the efforts of doctors.
If a recommended surgery means losing a part of your body, don’t keep holding out and refusing surgery, get the surgery! If you tried prayer and it didn’t work, stop holding out and get the surgery. God as my witness, I’ve seen a faithful woman literally die thinking God told her she would be healed and bear children and she was totally wrong. She had faith until DEATH, but it was not God’s will that she be healed as she felt it would come. It did not happen as she said God told her it would, she listened to a deceptive voice, it was not God. Pray once and then get the surgery if the doctor says you need it. I pray that woman is now healed in Heaven, but she allowed her body to suffer to death unnecessarily!
To prevent having comments that are just super long, I’m going to address the other questions in other comments I’ll make in this same thread.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:25 pm
About Acts 19:4-6, I think we need to do Acts 19:1-10 to get the full story on that one.
They did speak in tongues and they were “reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus”. They like the first hit of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 went out ministering to unbelievers. Unbelievers who were Jews and others.
I don’t see that scripture as them simply speaking in tongues to themselves and keeping it there. It appears to me that it was used as a tool to minister to others in their native language.
It’s not happening today. No solid proof of it anywhere today. And we have tools to minister to people of any language.
Either we are too weak to muster this one or its time past.
I’ll address the other questions in another comment.
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Question 1: Is there a scripture that tells us that tongues are not for today?
No, but there is a scripture that tells us it would cease in 1 Corinthians 13:8 and that love is greater. So why dwell on tongues when love is greater? I’d rather work in the greater gift, not the lesser.
Now I really don’t want to have to say this, but I must tell the truth. If you read all of 1 Corinthians 13 you see Paul speaking of putting away childish things, in a portion of a letter talking about love being greater than other gifts of the spirit. To take the “childish” in proper context means that things like tongues signify a gift of the spirit that is lower in maturity than love.
Today we don’t see tongues used to minister to people in their native language. It’s a lesser gift and not happening. Which is why many who now include myself contend that its time past. Even if its time didn’t pass, it’s a lesser gift, so I’m not going to focus my energy on it at all.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Question 2: What if there is a difference between “speaking in tongues” and the prayer language that comes with being filled with the Holy Spirit? After all, the gift of tongues is not given because you are filled, but it is a gift that is manifested as the Holy Spirit so chooses (1 Corinthians 12:4-11)
Paul said if someone is praying in another language that they should pray to be able to interpret it or their understanding is unfruitful, 1 Corinthians 14:13-16
Earlier in that Chapter Paul says to pursue love and seek spiritual gifts to prophesy. I don’t need to speak in tongues to speak inspired words. I need strong knowledge of the scripture, so I can say things like the wages of sin is death and have said it with a firm foundation that I spoke the truth.
1 Corinthians 14:4 (New King James Version)
So if I’ve got no ability to speak in tongues to an unbeliever as a sign to them in their native language, why edify myself when it’s better to edify the church? I say we should be learning the word to help others. I’m not talking about “prophesies” to say something like tomorrow at 8PM your front porch will crumble
. I’m talking about an edified speech, as in knowing the word and moving in the spirit to share the righteous word of God for the uplifting of the saints and speak to unbelievers.
1 Corinthians 14:12 (New King James Version)
That about sums it up for me.
People are claiming another language and it’s not any actual language at all. Hey, I did it too. I did it at church, I did it in private at my bedside. But I can’t say it was right. It was not a real language and not what I was instructed to pursue.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Question 3: What if there really is a prayer language that comes with being baptized in the Holy Spirit, and it is to be spoken only unto God, but the majority in the Church simply uses it out of order?
Hopefully I made this plain in comment #8 above. I think the use of the term “unknown tongue” in some translations of the Bible has a lot of people really mixed up. There is no “unknown tongue”, because to people who knew another language and were spoken to it was their native tongue. So it’s a real language used on earth or I have no scriptural basis for it. The tongue is “unknown” to the person who is saying it, but it’s not “unknown” as in a language not of this world.
Again, I don’t seek to edify myself, but the saints and to speak to unbelievers.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Question 4: Suppose there are some who follow the command to keep silent in the Church and speak only unto God? Would you still condemn it? When you compare everything else that “Christians” do that are against God’s Word, why would this be any different? You don’t see it being done the right way because doing it the right way would not be seen by others. Paul, and more importantly God, knew that there would be those who would use this manifestation as a way to present themselves as “spiritual” and thus wrote 1 Corinthians 14.
By my previous comments my thoughts on this should be fairly clear at this point. Nobody is in my opinion honestly doing it at all.
I was brought up with the same teaching you received on this, but when I read the scriptures, it was used for a real purpose. To edify myself was not the true goal. The true goal is not ever being used in any actual verifiable instance at all. I know mine was not an honest real language and I’ve overhead others who did not know I overhead and theirs was not either. It’s a lesser gift, not happening in my opinion and so it’s time past. I would think that even as weak as we are that we would be able to muster a lesser gift, but I think it’s usefulness has past in an age of easier communication. God allows the healing at times, seldom, very seldom, but I’m not seeing anything to verify languages today and so I say lets move towards the greater gifts, the greatest being love.