Which of man’s laws did Jesus break? What breakers of earthly law did the disciples tell us to provide sanctuary from arrest to?

Which of man’s laws did Jesus say we could break in order to eat a better meal?

Nobody is being “sacrificed” by being returned to their home country.

You live in a nation that gives plenty to immigrants every year. Sorry, we can’t save them all and plenty are being helped via legal means. If you wish to cater to those who BREAK the law, that is your option.

MOST MEXICANS are surviving IN MEXICO. Yet you continue making excuses for those who CHOOSE to break the law.

If one of their sheep crosses into the USA illegally, I’m sure our US Border Patrol is more than willing to allow a Mexican to get the sheep and return with it back to Mexico.

We have had this discussion for weeks now. It will end here. Comments to this thread are now closed.

Thank you for proving that when presented with sound scripture, some folks will always attempt to retrofit Gospel into secular humanism.

Telling also is your suggestion that man’s laws are more important than God’s laws. The mosaic law was in force and was the law at the time of Matthew 12. The disciples (who were not dead) violated letter of the law that was in effect at that time. Jesus also referred to a sheep falling into a pit on the Sabbath. To fetch the sheep would constitute violation of the law. How much more valuable is a child than a sheep? Someone thinks that in Matthew 12 Jesus was proving that a new covenant was taking root. Yet he brought up an event that happened centuries prior. Was this new covenant going to be retroactive? No. Jesus was talking about the mosaic law that was in effect at that time, and he was saying that some things are more important than the written law. In Mark 2 Jesus states that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice’, you would not have condemned the innocent. He was quoting Hosea: For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. The condition of one’s heart is more important to God than the fact that the individual meticulously follows every minute written law. If someone violates the law to save an animal, Jesus does not condemn that. How much more valuable is a child than a sheep?

Another thing that Jesus was doing in this exchange (something he did frequently) was rebuke the Pharisees for their legalistic judgmental attitude, always ready to leap to criticize someone else for not following every jot and tittle of the law yet at the same time neglecting the greatest commandment as well as the second. Strain out a gnat yet swallow a camel. Paul wrote that each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else. He often rebuked the Pharisees for the very thing that you are doing here.

Regarding a truck driver, they could have a sick kid. Should they steal to pay for that child’s medical care? Maybe run illegal drugs so their kid can get a check-up?

Now let’s talk about the portion of Matthew 12 that you raise, since you choose to say nothing about the verses I’ve cited for you, that clearly refute your claims to cover for illegal immigration.

Matthew 12:1-8 (New King James Version)

1) At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

2) And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3) But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:

4) how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?

5) Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

6) Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.

7) But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

We see Jesus and his disciples were hungry on the Sabbath and while legally residing in a country, they went into grainfields to eat. The law violated here was not one of eating grain when hungry. There were already Hebrew laws in place to excuse petty theft for the sake of easing hunger. They were not illegally residing in a country. What you miss, is that they violated a Mosaic law regarding the Sabbath. An old law “written in stone”. (See: 2 Corinthians 3:4-11) They did not violate a law of the Earthly ruling government. This, like the stoning Jesus prevented were Mosaic laws, that Jesus intentionally broke, to prove that a new covenant was taking root. So those old laws were going away. And Jesus is Lord of all, including the Sabbath. He is the Lord, he can do what he wants, even on what was designated as His Day. Just the same, Jesus never actually “broke” a law, he just showed us a better way, because of the Pharisees’ lack of understanding. He is the Lord, he can’t break what does not apply to him. And just the same he lived a life on Earth in flesh that was perfect in every way.

Now under the new covenant, Christians are required to obey the laws of the land.

Romans 13:1-7 (New King James Version)

1) Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

2) Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.

4) For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

5) Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.

6) For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

7) Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

When Jesus was taken to be judged, the Roman rulers could not find any fault in him. He never asked anyone to steal in violation of Roman laws to eat. He never asked anyone to break any of the ruling government’s laws and the ruling government’s laws did not conflict with being able to live right as an individual.

You see people who are in need. It is a Christian’s duty to give to them. Give to them where they are. Don’t violate US laws and claim you’re doing it for Christ’s sake. Pray that their (Mexico’s) corruption is removed.

You pay about as much attention to my comments as you do while reading the Bible. I write about people making sacrifices for their families. You think that’s the same as a truck driver serving his own interests. If someone seeks a better paying job in order to better provide for his family, it does not constitute “going after” his “material desires” as you so wrongfully accuse.

“Again I say to you, the people in Mexico are not starving. So Matt. 12 does not apply here”

False. Matt. 12 applies in every country. The disciples were not starving. They could have waiting until the next day to get food just like many people south of the border often do. And your own link concedes that perhaps half the country lives in poverty. If my neighbor is rich, it doesn’t make my life any better. The fact is that there are millions of poor people in Mexico many who go to bed hungry all too often, many who live in substandard housing, many who live on the street, and many who go without medical care. There are many families that have children that suffer from treatable ailments but can’t afford even the most rudimentary medical care. If the parents of these children seek higher paying jobs to better provide their families’ needs, it does not constitute “going after material desires” as you so wrongfully accuse.

Maybe today he can get a McDonald’s salad, but even that was not always an option. Does this mean that truck driver should break the law to ensure he’s got more money to afford better meals to have better health? If he can’t afford money for an annual checkup, should he steal to be able to pay for one, so he might prevent something?

We are to be content with what we have, even if we are so broke we end up in debt slavery.

1 Timothy 6:1-10 (New King James Version)

1) Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.

2) And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things.

3) If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,

4) he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions,

5) useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

6) Now godliness with contentment is great gain.

7) For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.

9) But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10) For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Remember the words of our Lord.

Matthew 6:25-34 (New King James Version)

25) “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?

26) Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

27) Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28) “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;

29) and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30) Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31) “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’

32) For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

33) But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

34) Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Again I say to you, the people in Mexico are not starving. So Matt. 12 does not apply here. They live in literally one of the richest nations in the world. Believe it or not, Mexico is a rich nation. Comparatively one of the richest in the world.

Now lets talk about how we can fight for justice IN MEXICO.

I knew a family down south, and they weren’t the poorest of the poor. They would be considered poor here, but there they were better off than most. Their daughter was able to go to school, and she was happy and healthy. Then one day she had a stroke. She existed as an invalid for several years before passing away. Had the father gone to the United States to work thereby providing the family with enough income for rudimentary physical exams and health care, they may have been able to prevent that.

Another family in the same neighborhood was poor by their standards. The oldest daughter went to the United States and got a good job. She could have bought a house for herself, but she sent as much as she could to her family. Her mother was able to get glasses and treatment for her many physical ailments. They could afford medicine and doctor visits when necessary. The younger daughter was able to attend school. The father got false teeth. Meanwhile the oldest daughter was living in a dinky little apartment. Yet you claim that she went to the US going after her material desires. It seems to me that your accusation doesn’t fit the facts.

Did they leave home merely to follow their material desires? Someone with a 4th grade education who works a menial job at low pay and sends billions of dollars to their mothers and families back home? That’s doesn’t appear to be greedy to me. Those who judge them don’t consider this. What a selfless person to work hard for low pay, live in less than ideal conditions, be away from family and loved ones, and, rather than using the money for his own enjoyment, send it to his family.

There is no Biblical basis for your claim that they should not leave their families temporarily to find work. No Biblical basis. All you’ve got is that they did something illegal.

You sit there with a quality K-12 education provided at no cost to you and a myriad of post K-12 educational opportunities, a social safety net and an institutional infrastructure, and you sit there and criticize other people who only want to opportunity to work for a living to provide a decent standard of living for their family. And, no, you didn’t show any of them any love of Christ, and you know it too.

I’m confident that someday you will change your pharisaical attitude. You changed your position on tithing. I mean tithing. Please. Come on. That new testament believers are not required to follow the mosaic law is so elementary. Loving your neighbors is much more complicated than that so if you’ve only recently dealt with the tithing issue, then you have a long way to go. Keep on keeping on.

I think it is you who have conceded that these illegals need to leave, rather than me ever conceding anything. Because I never said work and earning money were sinful. I’ve always spoken in the context of ILLEGAL activity in the name of a buck being sinful. Leaving your family that was not starving in the name of making a buck is sinful. Let’s review a statement I said in my very first comment to you.

The real issue here is that these men should not leave their families in the first place. They should not break laws in the name of making a buck. They were honestly not starving in Mexico.

I’ve already mentioned them being shown love and compassion.

Illegals are shown good treatment and respect. Given trials and if incarcerated live better than some Americans. It’s time they repent and go back home.

Now for all the social services and money they have received in the USA, rather than repent, they remain. Their wives are calling them home. They beg us to enforce our laws. Who am I to not honor the request of these women? I only give a greater voice to their cries that fall on politicians’ deaf ears.

Now let’s look at my original post and see what I said:

Anybody that thinks God wanted men to leave their families in the pursuit of cash is insane. Those people are not starving, otherwise those towns would be EMPTY. Men are leaving their families for an enhanced life, not survival. Chasing the dollar and breaking the law. There is NOTHING Christian about that.

I say no to amnesty, no to illegal immigration and send the illegals BACK HOME.

Prior to those statements I addressed our politicians. My position has remained unchanged since the start.

Now your basic argument is that they are illegal immigrants and should repent and leave the country. I agree with that. I also agree that terrorists should stop terrorizing. Abusive fathers should stop abusing their children. Thieves should stop stealing. We’re solving all the world’s problems here you and I. Of course the only problem is that I don’t know if the terrorists, abusive fathers, thieves and other sinners are going to comply.

I didn’t overlook that the prostitute and the tax collector “turned from” their prostitution and cheating people. In fact, I wrote that. I also did NOT overlook the fact that they “turned from” their sins after and only after they were shown love and compassion from Jesus. The Pharisees whining and moaning and criticizing was not effective in changing their hearts. Neither will a guy whining and moaning and criticizing on a blog change their hearts.

You are right about that I am not in a position to judge them. Maybe that’s why I didn’t judge them. Neither have I made an excuse for them.

And I have written nothing to indicate that I have been deceived into thinking that people who follow legal means to make money are on par with people who choose to break to law in order to make money. I never said that. I never implied that. In fact, in my earlier comment I acknowledged that they were lawbreakers.