I’ll be honest with you, I did not agree with Limbaugh’s whining about McNabb, but it was nothing compared to this.
Michael Irvin Says Tony Romo’s Athleticism Is Due to Black Ancestry (emphasis added)
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If La Shawn Barber had not covered this I might have never known about it. She feels Rush should not have been fired and that Irvin should not be fired either. I say Rush is gone and that’s a done deal regardless of how anyone felt about it. Now Irvin’s gotta go. I don’t want to turn on sports talk to hear somebody talking about some Black “studs” in the “hood”. My word if Irvin were White he’d already be crying like Michael Richards.
And while many claim Blacks hold athletic supremacy, they ignore the growing number of Europeans in the NBA. I’m not saying there is no such things as genetics, but lets not ignore that many of the NBA’s newest stars are from European countries.
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November 27th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
I think Lashawn Barber’s point was that there is some kind of racial double-standard, and to a degree, there is.
I’d probably argue that it’s far more an ideological double-standard, as folks like Harry belafonte can say the most vile things about black Conservatives, like Condoleeza Rice with impunity, but black Conservatives are afforded no such leeway.
I think Irvin’s comments are much closer to Jimmy “the Greek” Snyder’s comments about blacks being bred for physical stamina and acumen, rather than Limbaugh’s quizzical critique of Donovan McNabb. I certainly thought McNabb was over-rated back then, but only because he’d yet to deliver anything. Hell, Steve McNair is a much more accomplished quaterback at this point and this year he’s getting a real chance to show it.
What I think drove the media elites a little nuts about Limbaugh’s comments were the implication that the NFL and the media conspired to hype McNabb only because he was black. It was an indictment and they didn’t much like that.
I think Irvin is a real nitwit and when he pontificates about things he knows little about (like genetics) he’s prone, like many before him, to make some really idiotic and extremely offensive comments.
But again, do I want him fired just because Limbaugh was fired for less and Jimmy “the Greek” Snyder was fired for saying pretty much the same things?
No.
I just want this hypersensitivity on everyone’s part to stop. It’s really bad for all of us.
November 28th, 2006 at 10:47 am
I think Irvin’s comments are even worse than Jimmy “the Greek” Snyder’s. Jimmy the nut was talking about a generalization of historical events and attempting to relate them to modern day sports. And I think that Jimmy had already been brought into a line of questioning regarding race prior to making his statements. (And nobody ever says a word about him mentioning that Blacks would take over the NFL once into coaching.) Irvin on the other had said that Romo’s ancestors “ran over” something in “the hood” and did some “work in the yard”. It’s a damning accusation, which trashes people that live in poor areas and Romo’s own family.
The bottom line is that Romo is White and he can obviously play the game. I wish people would just accept that Whites who train can excel, just as Blacks that train for a job can get it without Affirmative Action. Any genetic concerns offer minor advantage compared to the actual WORK required to train to a higher level. I’m not saying anyone can do it, but when people work for a goal we see that people of various races can excel.
Yea Blacks might be winning sprints, but nobody wants to talk about the dope in sports. Once we get rid of the dope, then we can make some honest assessments. Which may never happen.
And if we Blacks are so good at sports, why can’t a Black man win a race on a freakin’ bike?
I think the results in sports are very much related to culture even more than genetic ability. I think the genetic differences while measurable are not honestly reflected in the results we see on the professional level of anything in sports of business.
I really don’t get caught up in the genetic aspects. I see champs working and losers sitting on their butts in both sports and business. And I think culture is the major factor in that.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
I agree with that people SHOULD look at everyone else as INDIVIDUALS and not merely members of various racial/ethnic groups, but many don’t.
And though that is indeed a form of ignorance, it is not a crime, nor should such insensitivity, in my opinion, be grounds for firing.
I don’t believe that Michael Irvin had any malice in making those remarks, unlike Michael Richards, who very obviously did.
Now Richards, I’d fire (for malicious conduct) and if I were an employer in the entertainment field, I’d be loathe to hire that guy, but I don’t feel the same way about Irvin’s comments, as inarticulate and ignorant as they may have been - ignorance does not equal malice and that’s why I’d hold these two guys to a different standard.
I feel the same way about Campanis and Jimmy “The Greek” Snyder as I do Michael Irvin. All their comments were poorly articulated, ill-conceived and ignorant, but not malicious, at least not in my view.
“And if we Blacks are so good at sports, why can’t a Black man win a race on a freakin’ bike?
I think the results in sports are very much related to culture even more than genetic ability. I think the genetic differences while measurable are not honestly reflected in the results we see on the professional level of anything in sports of business.” (IC)
Well, to be honest, how many blacks have an interest in bike racing?
Not many blacks have played tennis, but Ashe and the Williams sisters have certainly excelled there…and on their hard work and merit.
I think your assessment of sports and culture over genetics, is true for most endeavors, certainly business and other pursuits…culture plays a very vital role in all these things. That’s why I’ve always felt that the greatest skill anyone can possess is great communication skills. I’ve always looked to S B Fuller as a great example of that - born into grinding, what he called “shoeless” poverty, who LEARNED how to start a business and run one successfully. Fuller’s was a real Horatio Alger story. I was able to interview his widow, Lestine Fuller about ten or twelve years ago - an incredible woman.
And yes, the current doping scandals have certainly cast suspicion over much of professional sports…even sports in general, as it filters all the way down to the HS level. Still, the doping scandal cuts across all racial and ethnic lines, so I don’t believe it to be a factor in why black athletes predominate in a number of sports. Culture, yes, I think culture plays a huge part in many of the trends and differences we see around us.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
Not many blacks have played tennis, but Ashe and the Williams sisters have certainly excelled there…and on their hard work and merit.
There are several other Blacks who have played professional tennis that you’ve probably never heard of. Although they are Black, it didn’t make them a champion.
When it comes to Irvin, he’s such a bag of tarnished goods I don’t know why he was employed by ESPN even before this latest comment.
With Irvin keeping his job and there being so little response afterwards, it shows once again that Blacks can get away with a lot that Whites can’t dream of doing. I don’t think that does us any good.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
“With Irvin keeping his job and there being so little response afterwards, it shows once again that Blacks can get away with a lot that Whites can’t dream of doing. I don’t think that does us any good.” (IC)
No, no it doesn’t do any of us any good, that’s for sure, but again, I think although there is indeed a racial double standard, there’s an even bigger ideological one, and you can see that in the way that black Conservatives like Steele & Rice are treated as de facto whites.
In fact, in both those cases, Liberal whites such as the inane Ted Rall among others, used overt racial bigotry against both Steele & Rice with little to no mainstream media (MSM) attention and little, if ANY public outcry.
I agree that there should be ONE standard for all, but I’d like to makle a distinction between the ignorance of Irvin and Jimmy “the Greek” and the malice of folks like Michael Richards.
November 28th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Yes you are right that Irvin although foolish was actually trying to extend his form of a complement, while Richards was attempting the exact opposite.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:06 am
Oh, and as far as genetics go, though there are group differences (it would be inconceivable, given the wide range of individual differences, if there weren’t), they are are minor, with much overlap.
Discussions of group traits or differences serve almost no useful purpose so long as people are judged as individuals and in most situations we’re judged inidividually, not as a group.
Good point about the Europeans in the NBA, and there are a number of Asians as well. Not just Yao Ming, but a few other Chinese big men have cracked the NBA…and with Ming’s play this year, that may spark a growing trend.