Last week Michael Medved hosted a debate between Islamist expert Robert Spencer and Jeff Siddiqui. Mr. Siddiqui is head of American Muslims for Puget Sound. Siddiqui has a history of attacking those who expose Islam’s history and endorsements of violence. He ran an orchestrated effort to censor Daniel Pipes from speaking at the University of Washington in 2002. Fortunately Siddiqui and his allies failed in their efforts. (Siddiqui claims it was not an effort at censorship, but read the whole article linked below and you’ll see the truth.)

It also seems that Siddiqui was slow to respond with an apology when a follower of “pure Islam” attacked in Washington State.

Siddiqui admits he does not know Arabic, so much of his debate with Spencer consisted of Siddiqui trying to claim Spencer was misrepresenting Islam, but unable to offer much in the way of facts from Islam to counter Spencer. While Robert Spencer was able to provide a deep well of Islamic sources to support his findings.

They discuss how Islam was spread by the sword. Siddiqui attempted to claim that all religions have spread via violence at some point in time. Spencer accurately responded that the use of violence to spread Islam is unique and not truly comparable to instances where violence may have occurred in relation to any other established religion. Because Islam instructs and advocates the use of violent aggression. It was even done by Muhammad himself. There are no instances of Jesus killing for the sake of subjugating non-believers. Quite the contrary, Jesus Died for Our Sins.

Spencer pointed out that although Islam instructs not to force people to convert, non-Muslims are given a choice to either live as a 2nd class citizen, convert or die. (That’s what I call Muhammad’s pro-choice movement.) He also explained how Muslim leaders have already started efforts to subjugate America.

Many who have converted to Islam did so because they were tired of living as 2nd class citizens. 2nd class citizens that were forced to pay a separate tax to Muslims, although Jeff Siddiqui attempted to make it appear that everyone in a Muslim area payed the same tax. There was no discussion of the long list of rules that non-Muslims were subjected to in the past and are currently subjected to in Muslim lands. There was no discussion of how people who convert from Islam are killed.

Siddiqui attempted to say Muslims were kind to people in India in the past, because Muslims lived there and the entire area was not converted to Islam. Spencer countered with historical facts from the pin of a Hindu (K.S. Lal) who noted just how kind Muslims were.

Medved asked Siddiqui to name some modern day Muslim nations that have an exemplary record of religious tolerance. Siddiqui responded with Malaysia and Indonesia. Maybe Siddiqui thinks listeners to Medved’s show are all under-educated fools, but neither country has a record to boast about. Indonesia executed Christians associated with a riot, while letting Muslims associated with the same riot go free and also has let a terrorist connected cleric go free. After those Christians were killed, a Christian priest was murdered and more recently 3 Christian girls were beheaded as they walked to school. As for Malaysia, you can read here how the government there has non-Muslims paying a tax called the “Bumiputra” and forcing companies formed by non-Muslims to make Muslims not involved in the creation of the company full partners.

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All Malays are required to be counted as Muslims, and all Muslims benefit from a disguised jizyah tax on non-Muslims which is called the “Bumiputra” or “Sons of the Soil” system. Most Westerners are unacquainted with the “Bumiputra.” But anyone living in Malaysia who is unaware of the “Bumiputra” system has not yet sunk beneath the surface of Malaysian life. Although the word means “sons of the soil,” it is not the indigenous Malaysian tribes that benefit from the “Bumiputra” policy, but Malay Muslims alone.

According to this “Bumiputra” idea, all economic undertakings, all examples of entrepreneurial flair, must have Muslim Malays as their full partners. Two Chinese who wish to open, for example, a computer consulting company, or an architectural firm, are required to take on a Muslim Malay (but not a Hindu, nor another Chinese) as a full partner, with an equal financial stake — even though he need not contribute a thing. This is simply a way to ensure that the Muslims can continue to live on the backs of non-Muslims, which is part of the traditional status of dhimmi, including the payment of the jizya (and kharaj, or land-tax).

The real “Sons of the Soil” — the real indigenous tribes of Malaysia — in fact are almost entirely Christian, where they are not pagan. These tribes of course, benefit not at all from the Bumiputra system.
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Siddiqui had to admit that no Muslim nation embraces democracy. When asked why he simply blamed Britain, instead of mentioning a word about how Islam does not mix well with systems of government where everyone is considered equal under the law.

Robert Spencer covered how Muslims have explained the stages of development in Islam regarding violence. He mentioned this explanation has been carried throughout Islam’s history and backed by Muslim leaders since the 8th century. It is how Muhammad’s own life was lived and the stages he carried out himself. Which is why I say the orthodox or “pure Islam” folks are exactly what they claim to be. The group really living like Muhammad lived and as Muhammad instructed before his death.

The 3 stages:

• 1) Muslims should not fight.
• 2) Fight in self defense.
• 3) Fight in offense to spread Islam.

Use the link to audio clips below to hear portions of the debate.

Robert Spencer Debates Jeff Siddiqui – WMA Audio (Size: 1.55 MB)
(If linking, please link to this post, not the audio file. For the sake of bandwidth there will be no other formats made.)